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[lechatchileh ariber]

I believe it is.

Unless he is a threat to you

[meshugener]

Did Jesus exist?

Did Yonah Hanavi exist?

Did Vashti Hamalkah exist?

You can't prove that either.

[Aaaron]

Unless he is a threat to you

Still immoral.  The necessity overrides the immorality. 

[meshugener]

What's exactly all your issues with bleeding? Why not just take pills, make bedikos, and find out if your affected by it or not?

BINGO

Why ban it because of this?

[meshugener]

Still immoral.  The necessity overrides the immorality.

Here comes the question: when is it a necessity?

ISIS has their necessities, the Nazis had theirs, the US troops have theirs, etc.

A robber who kills someone during a robbery might think it's a necessity because he was very hungry.

[Aaaron]

Here comes the question: when is it a necessity?

ISIS has their necessities, the Nazis had theirs, the US troops have theirs, etc.

A robber who kills someone during a robbery might think it's a necessity because he was very hungry.

Ok, where you draw the line regarding necessity superseding morality is up for debate.  Either way, I still believe it's innately immoral.  Same thing for a starving man to steal.  Thievery is immoral, but necessity overrides. 

Lechatchileh was trying to get me to say that sometimes it's not immoral.

[hvaces42]

Did Yonah Hanavi exist?

Did Vashti Hamalkah exist?

You can't prove that either.

And what is your point?

The Megillah was written contemporaneously with the story, within the year. Yona is mentioned in Melachim II which was written by Yirmiyah Hanavi. So basically you're asking how do we know any of it is true. 

[skyguy918]

1) We were talking about this mitzva i.e. לערב אל תנח and not about the issue of bleeding.

2) Reb Moshe moved away because of the issue of bleeding and not because of the the relevance of financial issues.

I'm talking about the final tshuva mentioned. Starts on page 136 here, which is EH 4:72.

,הבה בדבר ליקח לאשה נלולות (פילן) לכפיעת הריון, הנה אף שאיסור זרע לבטלה ליכא כיון שהזרע נכנס לרחם האשה, אבל בלא צורך גדול גם זה אין ליקח כי אין להתחכם ולבקש עצות, אף שבשביל לשבת בראה אין לחייב האשה להצטער יותר מכפי כוחותיה, אבל הוא כמתחמם ננד רצון השי"ת. אך אם היא חלשה בגופה וכ"ש אם היא יראה מאד שקוראיז נערוון שהוא כמו חולי שהיה שייך להתיר. אבל יש לידע שגלולות אלו אף שעוצרין הדם הם גם גורמים שתראה האשה מעט דם שלדינא אין חלוק בין הרבה דם למשהו. אבל באשר שהרבה נשים אין רואות מזה דם צריכה בדיקה גדולה בחדש הראשון שתלבש לבנים וגם בין הרגלים תניח המוך, שמשימות הנשים בימי ראייתן הדם כדי שלא יטנפו בגדיה, כל העשרים יום שלוקחת הגלולות ותבדוק לעת ערב וכשלא תראה דם בחודש הראשון אז יהיה ראיה שהגלולות אין עושין לה שתראה דם, ולא תרחץ כל גופה באמבטיה (באד) אלא רק לעשות מקלחת (שאור). ולא תצטרך בחדשים האחרים לחוש שוב. וגם יש לידע כי הגלולות האלו לא טוב לבריאות האשה וצריך להעיר .הדאקטאר על זה

He doesn't mention financial reasons as a legitimate reason to use the pill, and introduces a new concept of כמתחמם ננד רצון השי"ת.

[lechatchileh ariber]

Still immoral.  The necessity overrides the immorality.

So sometimes we must do things which as a rule are wrong.

If that's what you mean I may agree with you. I believe it's a מדרש which goes through the 10 commandments as: לא,תרצח. לא, תנאף etc. (Some bring it to explain in Tanya where he says something like 'הרהורי ניאוף בין בהתר כו)
Meaning that ניאוף as a rule is not allowed, but with your married spouse is something we are commanded to do. Murder as a rule is not allowed, but to kill certain people in certain situations is something which we are commanded to do.

Again, I am understanding 'a man of morals' as someone who doesn't react based only on his feelings but tries to conform to a higher standard, from either A)G-d or B)for the greater good and progression of the human race.

If we are too choose B. The greater good of humanity is subjective, everyone has their own view of the way the world should look, and who can be the judge to decide who's blood is more red. (So it's not really for a higher standard)

How would the world look if everyone killed those whom they believed were a threat to the furtherance of humanity.

[lechatchileh ariber]

I think you're focusing on only one meaning.  I'm not saying murder has always been immoral.  I'm saying that modern society - through thousands of years of growth - has developed an innate sense that murder is immoral. 

I personally don't care whether you change along with society.  That doesn't change the fact that morals - absent religion - are fluid and change over time along with current social mores. 

Wow.  Ok.

I'm honestly not sure.  That's my answer. 

Let me ask you one:  If your Rov points out a guy on the street and tells you he's a descendant of Amalek and you have a chiyuv to kill him.  Here's a gun.  Would you?

If the only reason he's not killing is because it's immoral, he may very well enjoy it immensely.
If he's not killing because it makes him feel bad, he most probably wouldn't eat meat.

[luckyluck]

I'm talking about the final tshuva mentioned. Starts on page 136 here, which is EH 4:72.He doesn't mention financial reasons as a legitimate reason to use the pill, and introduces a new concept of כמתחמם ננד רצון השי"ת.

He still mentions צורך גדול and the fact that he does not mention explicitly financial reasons does not prove that he changed his mind on this point.

[ilherman]

I'm talking about the final tshuva mentioned. Starts on page 136 here, which is EH 4:72.He doesn't mention financial reasons as a legitimate reason to use the pill, and introduces a new concept of כמתחמם ננד רצון השי"ת.

Finally we're getting places. It's כמתחמם ננד רצון השי"ת.

That's Hashkafah. He does not mention a word what CBC said over and over that you're Oiver on Ilerev Al Tanach Yudchah.

[yochiek93]

Did Yonah Hanavi exist?

Did Vashti Hamalkah exist?

You can't prove that either.

There is a grave for yonah
Is there one for Jesus

[wayfe]

I think you're focusing on only one meaning.  I'm not saying murder has always been immoral.  I'm saying that modern society - through thousands of years of growth - has developed an innate sense that murder is immoral. 

I personally don't care whether you change along with society.  That doesn't change the fact that morals - absent religion - are fluid and change over time along with current social mores. 

You're saying that socially accepted norms are morals.

Don't you say the danger of morals being fluid? If it can change on whim- then there's no inherent truth to it. I personally need to put my belief and base my worldview on something that is unchangeable and constant.

Let me ask you one:  If your Rov points out a guy on the street and tells you he's a descendant of Amalek and you have a chiyuv to kill him.  Here's a gun.  Would you

Once I've done my due diligence and ascertained that this Rov was a true agent of G-d, I should.

[Hershelsdeals]

There is a grave for yonah
Is there one for Jesus

Yonah has a grave? There are atleast 3.

And yes, there also multiple Jesus tombs.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tomb_of_Jesus

[meshugener]

Finally we're getting places. It's כמתחמם ננד רצון השי"ת.

That's Hashkafah. He does not mention a word what CBC said over and over that you're Oiver on Ilerev Al Tanach Yudchah.

+1

That's not halacha.

[luckyluck]

and introduces a new concept of כמתחמם ננד רצון השי"ת.

Finally we're getting places. It's כמתחמם ננד רצון השי"ת.

That's Hashkafah. He does not mention a word what CBC said over and over that you're Oiver on Ilerev Al Tanach Yudchah.

For the record, it's not "כמתחמם ננד רצון השי"ת", but "כמתחכם ננד רצון השי"ת".

[hvaces42]

Yonah has a grave? There are atleast 3.

And yes, there also multiple Jesus tombs.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tomb_of_Jesus

Why would Jesus have a tomb if he was raised from the dead

[David Smith]

Once I've done my due diligence and ascertained that this Rov was a true agent of G-d, I should.

So is there anything immoral about what Muslim extremists that blow up kindergartens are doing, being as they understand that to be what G-d desires of them?

[aygart]

There is a grave for yonah
Is there one for Jesus

The vast majority of the tombs of neviim and tanaim etc do not date to when they were living but were placed al pi kabalah iinm