On the Daf (insights, questions etc..)

[AsherO]

@AsherO U seem to learn well, want to learn together sometime?

I don't think I learn well, but I definitely try to learn fun.

Sure, if you're coming this way, stop by and we'll shteig some

[dirah]

13A, the gemarah discusses why the parshiyos of krias shema are in a specific order.
The second is before the third, because the 2nd has mitzvos by day and night while the 3rd is only night.
Now I understand that it is going on the mitzva of tzizis. However there are other comandments in the 3rd that are also by night.  Lo sosuru, yetzas mitzrayin, ani hashem?

Gemara on 14b says that Yetzias Mitzrayim can be recited some other way.
With regards to the other Mitzvos listed on 12b, עול מצות ודעת מינים והרהור עבירה והרהור עבודה זרה, those ultimately all branch out from the מצוה of ציצית, the פשוטו של מקרא is that by looking at ציצית, it will lead on to the other aspects involving עול מצות ודעת מינים והרהור עבירה והרהור עבודה זרה. At night, when it is not זמן ציצית, then you don't have the זכרון for these other aspects as well.

[kracked dude]

Gemara on 14b says that Yetzias Mitzrayim can be recited some other way.
With regards to the other Mitzvos listed on 12b, עול מצות ודעת מינים והרהור עבירה והרהור עבודה זרה, those ultimately all branch out from the מצוה of ציצית, the פשוטו של מקרא is that by looking at ציצית, it will lead on to the other aspects involving עול מצות ודעת מינים והרהור עבירה והרהור עבודה זרה. At night, when it is not זמן ציצית, then you don't have the זכרון for these other aspects as well.

Is this your own pshat?

[dirah]

Is this your own pshat?

The thought came to me as I was learning 14b about how in Ma'arava they didn't say Parshas Tzitzis at all.
Feel free to opshlug.

[elikay]

Another raya could be from the gemara which states that Rebbi would mention Yetzias Mitzrayim during his shiur.

[dirah]

Brochos 16b
The Mishna says no Shurah for Avodim.
Tosfos explains because people might come to treat them as full-fledged yidden and marry them.
But why? If the din would be that there is Shurah for Avodim, then no one would regard it as a sign that they are full-fledged yidden.

[Nitantnel]

Brochos 16b
The Mishna says no Shurah for Avodim.
Tosfos explains because people might come to treat them as full-fledged yidden and marry them.
But why? If the din would be that there is Shurah for Avodim, then no one would regard it as a sign that they are full-fledged yidden.

I think that act of a Shura is a kind of respect reserved for Yidden. That is to say  the Din itself is not what would make people think they are Yidden but the context what is being done.

OT: What exactly is the problem with thinking that this deceased was a full fledged Jew? The only possible problem is that you might marry his children, but since Eved In Lo Yichus, we will have to say that it will cause us to backtrack and find his offspring's which we might not even know who they are as  never had Yichus.

[shmuelb]

10B: Mishna - serves you right, Rabbi Tarfon, for transgressing the words of B"H... Tough words...

See Mayan Beis Hashoeva, I think from Rav SR Hirsh, a beautiful explanation. He explains that B"Sh held that you say Shema in a specific way but B"H was saying that if you are walking - say like that, laying - say like that. The meaning is that whatever you are doing, you should say Shema in that situation - Shema applies to all situations in our lives. Do not say - "now I am on vacation/at work etc. so I can behave differently".

I think that act of a Shura is a kind of respect reserved for Yidden. That is to say  the Din itself is not what would make people think they are Yidden but the context what is being done.

OT: What exactly is the problem with thinking that this deceased was a full fledged Jew? The only possible problem is that you might marry his children, but since Eved In Lo Yichus, we will have to say that it will cause us to backtrack and find his offspring's which we might not even know who they are as  never had Yichus.

1. Good point.

2. What about his children? What does it mean he has no yichus?

[Nitantnel]

His children aren't considered his children. They probably can marry their biological siblings; need not sit Shivah for one another etc.

[shmuelb]

His children aren't considered his children. They probably can marry their biological siblings; need not sit Shivah for one another etc.

EMI - excuse my ignorance, is that davka by an eved as opposed to akum? FWIR, by 2 siblings being megayer, you say kekatan shenolad and there is no issur (min HaTora) for them to marry.

[AsherO]

EMI - excuse my ignorance, is that davka by an eved as opposed to akum? FWIR, by 2 siblings being megayer, you say kekatan shenolad and there is no issur (min HaTora) for them to marry.

What kind of eved is this talking about? An eved knani has no ishus or arayos at all.

[dirah]

I think that act of a Shura is a kind of respect reserved for Yidden. That is to say the Din itself is not what would make people think they are Yidden but the context what is being done.

Why would this be?
Remember that an Eved Kenani is more Yid than Nochri, he is Mechuyev in most Mitzvos somewhat like an Isha (with some differences),

OT: What exactly is the problem with thinking that this deceased was a full fledged Jew? The only possible problem is that you might marry his children, but since Eved In Lo Yichus, we will have to say that it will cause us to backtrack and find his offspring's which we might not even know who they are as  never had Yichus.

Ein Lo Yichus is an Inyan Shel Halocho, doesn't change the reality that people know who his kids are.

[shmuelb]

What kind of eved is this talking about? An eved knani has no ishus or arayos at all.

Tzarich Iyun, gtg, bbl8r be"H.

[shmuelb]

I'm back. Lo yagaati 

Brachos 27b: Amar Rav Zeira ... Ki asa Ulah ...

Q. Why is he arguing, maybe both stories happened? Eilu ve'eilu? AsherO, I am sure you thought about this and have a pshat.

[eli1571]

Any scientific explanation for "Shuraiki Sumki"?

yes it means the red veins in the chicken, (see y''d 87 5 the long shach)

[elikay]

I'm back. Lo yagaati 

Brachos 27b: Amar Rav Zeira ... Ki asa Ulah ...

Q. Why is he arguing, maybe both stories happened? Eilu ve'eilu? AsherO, I am sure you thought about this and have a pshat.

I saw someone who says (I forgot who...) that these two Tanaim would often travel together to Rome to intercede on behalf of their brethren. So there are two versions as to which of the two it happened with.

[AsherO]

Off topic, I finished Brochos yesterday Bez"H, and did the first Amud of Eiruvin (which I hope to finish by 19th of Kislev), then onto Shabbos

P.s. I guess I'm too eager for daf yomi, I just want to finish Shas I know our order is wrong, but my Chavrusa prefers to do Eiruvin first.

[elikay]

I figured I'd give this thread a bump in honor of Tisha Beav to discuss relevant gemaras.

[elikay]

I'll start
Gittin 56A
-ענוותנותו של רבי זכריה בן אבקולס what does it have to do with Anava (Rashi explains סבלנותו but the gemara does not say that)
-Why did they want to kill bar Kamtza? Why did Rav Zecharya only have a problem with what people would say, and not the fact that he would be killed?

[elikay]

Why does the Gemara call them נירון קיסר, אספסיינוס קיסר when in reality they were just generals? The gemara says שדר עלוייהו so obviously they were not in charge. אספסיינוס did end up becoming the קיסר as the Gemara relates on 56b, but not נירון. When Titus is mentioned it does not call him קיסר.