Author Topic: On the Daf (insights, questions etc..)  (Read 7181 times)

Offline elikay

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On the Daf (insights, questions etc..)
« on: August 05, 2012, 01:27:28 AM »
In honor of the new Daf Yomi cycle, how about a place where one can post Chidushim and Hearos, ask questions (even a simple Teitch word if someone needs help with that) on the days Daf!

Please, if you have a chiddush from elsewhere on the web, do not cut and paste it, rather post a link to it.

Always start post by referencing Masechta/Daf

PLEASE only use for Divrei Tora on the Daf

Offline elikay

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Re: On the Daf (insights, questions etc..)
« Reply #1 on: August 13, 2012, 12:20:46 PM »
Berachos 11B

Rav Hamnuna
says that one should recite all the Brachos; Asher kideshanu, Haarev na (probably not a new bracha) and Asher bochar bonu since Asher bochar is "meula shebabrochos". I was wondering why that would be a reason to recite all of the Brachos, that should  only be a reason to say the last one.

As a matter of fact, the Mishna Berura (siman 47 s"k 1) rules that if one is not sure if he recited Birchos Hatorah he must recite it anyway. He bases his ruling on the basis of Sofek deoraysa lechumra, since many poskim (he cites the Shaagas Aryeh and the Derech Chayim, and the Rishonim Chinuch, Ramban and Rashba) are of the opinion that Birchos Hatorah are Mideoraysa. Interestingly, he says that Mideoraysa one only needs to recite one Beracha (and apparently either Beracha would suffice) however one should recite the last Bracha since the Gemara calls it "meula shebabrochos".

Lehalacha, the Mishna Berura rules that someone who is in doubt whether he recited Birchos Hatorah should
-If he remembered before davening, recite only the second beracha.
-If he already started davening (and is already after pesukei dezimra?) have in mind at Ahava Raba/Ahavas Olam to be yotze then, AND learn a bit after davening (or recite Vaydaber/Elu devarim).
-If he remembered after having recited Ahava Raba/Ahavas Olam, one can still rely on it and not recite the Beracha again, even if one did not learn after shacharis.

However, as I asked above. Why don't you just say the last beracha (I am aware of the other girsa in  the Gemara which may help a bit.

Offline AsherO

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Re: On the Daf (insights, questions etc..)
« Reply #2 on: August 13, 2012, 01:30:07 PM »
I just saw this now and I was going to start a thread like this myself, though I thought it might come across as pretentious. I also take a bit of an artistic/critical license when learning, and I am not sure it's appropriate to post my borderline kfira/boich-svoros/klutz-kashes/peanut-gallery here...

My questions/comments thus far:

A general comment, I wish there was an abridged summary on each daf of Maharsha's Chiddushei Aggados.

2B: poor people still get fed last :'(

3A: When did DHA"H sleep? So whenever the economy was slow they started a war?

4B: What does it mean that Michael comes with 1 hop, Gavriel with 2, Eliyahu with 4 etc?

5B: "This is the bone of my tenth son", freaky stuff....

6A: Mazikin?! Are they physical? Any scientific explanation?
6B: "Any person who has in him fear of heaven, his words are heard (obeyed)", like!

7A: "Tanye..." Like!
Rega = 1/58,888th of an hour, come again? Don't we have equipment today that can measure much faster than that?
Any scientific explanation for "Shuraiki Sumki"?
7B "Greater the service (support?) of Torah than its study" Like! If only this was appreciated.

8A: So it's important to daven with the tzibbur, or only at that time (as implied by the story bottom of 7B)?
Askara? Eeeek? Neshikin, isn't that death by a "kiss" of g-d?
Gammatria in Shas, cool  8) 903 types of death, hmmm...
Matza/Motze: If you find your wife once, that's good. If you have to repeatedly go looking for her, it's more bitter than death...
Bermuda Triangle reference in Rashi, Like! (see Rabbi Ba-gad's book).
Don't live near your teacher if you won't listen to him anyway, like!
8B: So if Persians are so modest, why are they "designed for pergatory"?

9A: The rabbis had a serious party at the wedding of RYB"L...
9B: Vayashilum - Baal Korchom (di'Yisrael): Sometimes having too much materiality is burdensome.
Mishna: If the halacha for the night Kri-shma is all night, then why for morning Kri-shma isn't it all day?

10A: Go Bruriyah!
Is there correlation between the 5 Borchi-Nafshis and the 2nd explanation of the gemara (5 times Hashem/Neshama)?
Story With Chizkiyah, Like! You do your part, Hashem will do his part. Why doesn't it say in the Gemara that Chizkiyah was answered and he lived on? Classy guy, asked Yishayahu for his daughter  8)

10B: The hostess knows the guest better than the host.
Mishna - serves you right, Rabbi Tarfon, for transgressing the words of B"H... Tough words...

11A: Interesting that the tirda of Chosson is about Bsulin (see PiH"M, Rambam) and not about mitzvah, hence the separate limud.
So when your business goes down you don't lay tefillin?
"Dude, neat beard man", Response"Oh yeah? I'm going to cut it off now"... Hmmm?....
11B: Mentioning day at night and night by day, why?
"Rav raised his hands and prayed" Like!

12A: So we don't read the 10 commandments daily just because of the minim? Hmmm...
Dates specifically are like bread? Or they're just covered by birchas hazon?
12B: Ah, so that's why some people shuckle like that...
We don't read parshas Balak daily because of tircha d'tsibura, Like!
What a long quote of a verse from Tanach at the bottom of the page.

13A: So why (taken) is Yaakov different than Avrohom with regards to calling them by their (respective) original name?
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Re: Re: On the Daf (insights, questions etc..)
« Reply #3 on: August 13, 2012, 02:28:10 PM »
I just saw this now and I was going to start a thread like this myself, though I thought it might come across as pretentious. I also take a bit of an artistic/critical license when learning, and I am not sure it's appropriate to post my borderline kfira/boich-svoros/klutz-kashes/peanut-gallery here...


+1000
rather post questions comments on cc related issues
I'm just say'in©ģ

Offline elikay

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Re: On the Daf (insights, questions etc..)
« Reply #4 on: August 13, 2012, 02:37:07 PM »
wow! you are ahead of the game! as far as your comment regarding a chosson, it probably has to do with the fact that eirusin were done before nissuin. So there was a worry (especially since then she would possibly be assur)
Regarding mentioning the night by day and the day by night. I found in the back (I think it is rabenu Yona) who says it is to emphasize that we believe they were all created by one creator, unlike some minim mentioned elsewhere.

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Re: On the Daf (insights, questions etc..)
« Reply #5 on: August 13, 2012, 02:39:57 PM »
Also, I understood from RASHI that the need for an extra limud is since it is not a maase, just a machshava.

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Re: Re: On the Daf (insights, questions etc..)
« Reply #6 on: August 13, 2012, 02:41:35 PM »
wow! you are ahead of the game! as far as your comment regarding a chosson, it probably has to do with the fact that eirusin were done before nissuin. So there was a worry (especially since then she would possibly be assur)

huh? ::)::)::)::)
I'm just say'in©ģ

Offline AsherO

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Re: On the Daf (insights, questions etc..)
« Reply #7 on: August 13, 2012, 02:48:55 PM »
+1000
rather post questions comments on cc related issues

Gee thanks ::)

wow! you are ahead of the game! as far as your comment regarding a chosson, it probably has to do with the fact that eirusin were done before nissuin. So there was a worry (especially since then she would possibly be assur)

I'm not sure what you're saying, it's talking about Nisuin ("Kones") and (I inferred from the Rambam that)
is talking about tirdas bsulin (which would cause him to count days).

Regarding mentioning the night by day and the day by night. I found in the back (I think it is rabenu Yona) who says it is to emphasize that we believe they were all created by one creator, unlike some minim mentioned elsewhere.

Thanks!
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Offline dirah

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Re: On the Daf (insights, questions etc..)
« Reply #8 on: August 13, 2012, 07:16:48 PM »
Berachos 11B
Rav Hamnuna
says that one should recite all the Brachos; Asher kideshanu, Haarev na (probably not a new bracha) and Asher bochar bonu since Asher bochar is "meula shebabrochos". I was wondering why that would be a reason to recite all of the Brachos, that should  only be a reason to say the last one.
There is every reason to think that the הילכך לימרינהו לכולהו is the סתמא דמגרא. not the המשך of רב המנונא.

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Re: On the Daf (insights, questions etc..)
« Reply #9 on: August 13, 2012, 07:31:50 PM »
I just saw this now and I was going to start a thread like this myself, though I thought it might come across as pretentious. I also take a bit of an artistic/critical license when learning, and I am not sure it's appropriate to post my borderline kfira/boich-svoros/klutz-kashes/peanut-gallery here...
   
I am not sure I would call it artistic.

4B: What does it mean that Michael comes with 1 hop, Gavriel with 2, Eliyahu with 4 etc?
   
http://chabadlibrary.org/books/default.aspx?furl=/adhaz/toraor/1/6b

8A: So it's important to daven with the tzibbur, or only at that time (as implied by the story bottom of 7B)?
   
Both. If you canít be with, at least at the same time.

8B: So if Persians are so modest, why are they "designed for purgatory"?
   
Because that was the only good thing about them.

Mishna: If the halacha for the night Kri-shma is all night, then why for morning Kri-shma isn't it all day?
   
Because you sleep the whole night, but you donít wake up the whole day, hopefully you finished doing that in the morning. [שכיבה is sleeping, קימה is waking up, not being awake.]

Story With Chizkiyah, Like! You do your part, Hashem will do his part.
   
Check out the הגהות הב"ח on that story.
The Rebbeís take on this story: כל שכן family planning due to the unknown of financial situation, and the like, big no-no.

Why doesn't it say in the Gemara that Chizkiyah was answered and he lived on?
   
Because it says that in the Pesukim.

"Rav raised his hands and prayed" Like!
   
משי means washed, not raised.

Dates specifically are like bread? Or they're just covered by birchas hazon?
   
They specifically are covered if you ate them before washing for bread and forgot a ברכה אחרונה on them before washing for bread. Other fruits in the same situation would require a separate ברכה אחרונה even after benching.
« Last Edit: August 13, 2012, 07:35:57 PM by dirah »

Offline AsherO

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Re: On the Daf (insights, questions etc..)
« Reply #10 on: August 13, 2012, 07:44:50 PM »
   
I am not sure I would call it artistic.
   
http://chabadlibrary.org/books/default.aspx?furl=/adhaz/toraor/1/6b
   
Both. If you canít be with, at least at the same time.
   
Because that was the only good thing about them.
   
Because you sleep the whole night, but you donít wake up the whole day, hopefully you finished doing that in the morning. [שכיבה is sleeping, קימה is waking up, not being awake.]
   
Check out the הגהות הב"ח on that story.
The Rebbeís take on this story: כל שכן family planning due to the unknown of financial situation, and the like, big no-no.
   
Because it says that in the Pesukim.
   
משי means washed, not raised.
   
They specifically are covered if you ate them before washing for bread and forgot a ברכה אחרונה on them before washing for bread. Other fruits in the same situation would require a separate ברכה אחרונה even after benching.

Thanks mate, you're a true scholar. Are you doing the Daf too?
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Offline elikay

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Re: On the Daf (insights, questions etc..)
« Reply #11 on: August 13, 2012, 07:56:55 PM »
There is every reason to think that the הילכך לימרינהו לכולהו is the סתמא דמגרא. not the המשך of רב המנונא.
So how are you understanding "hilkach"? I thought of such an pshat, and the only way I can come up with is that since each Rabbi recommended to say one part, we say them all! We find such a concept by modim derabanan where it is really a merger of what many Rabbis would say (hence the "derabanan" in the name), and by Elokay Netzor.

Offline dirah

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Re: On the Daf (insights, questions etc..)
« Reply #12 on: August 13, 2012, 08:15:59 PM »
So how are you understanding "hilkach"?
The Meforshim talk about it. One place to look is פני יהושע who explains that it is not really a מחלוקת. See there for more details. See Tzlach. Etc.

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Re: On the Daf (insights, questions etc..)
« Reply #13 on: August 13, 2012, 08:16:26 PM »
Are you doing the Daf too?
As long as I can fit it in after 3 Prokim.

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Re: On the Daf (insights, questions etc..)
« Reply #14 on: August 13, 2012, 08:20:11 PM »
As long as I can fit it in after 3 Prokim.

Nice, I'm proud of you.
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