Rabbi Marburger Calls Me Out...

[SGF]

- its clearly a case of 'zeh nehene veze lo chaser'

- what he is saying only applies if its a totally jewish owned company

- at the time elal claimed it wasent them who made the mistake it was a third party

- maybe elal will try to get the 3rd party to pay for what they lost so they only will end up gaining. (unless they already tried and they lost)

[Deal Guy]

Lets pretend he's right. (I'm not going there, im just saying)
Now who said that Dan even knew that it was Elal making the mistake, and not AA or someone else (orbitz)?

Did you know right away when you tweeted that it was Elal's mistake?

[Dan]

Did you know right away when you tweeted that it was Elal's mistake?

It wasn't El Al's mistake in the end-it was their contractor's.  As to what that means, IANAL.

[Dan]

This wasn't a 17% off deal, nor even a 50% off deal, this was apprx a 70% off deal in some cases.

Jetblue has run 70% off sales.
I've seen $99 transcon fares that are normally $399.
This is a very funny business with pricing that is anything but linear or rational (see hidden city ticketing where NYC-CLE is $700 but NYC-CLE-PIT is $49), the idea of there being a correct price is laughable...which is precisely the reason for the DOT regulation.

[Deal Guy]

It wasn't El Al's mistake in the end-it was their contractor's.  As to what that means, IANAL.

Well, he compared you of taking advantage of a brother for your sister's benefit. But if you didn't know that it was taking advantage of your brother...then whats his point?

[Dan]

Well, he compared you of taking advantage of a brother for your sister's benefit. But if you didn't know that it was taking advantage of your brother...then whats his point?

No idea.

[AsherO]

It wasn't El Al's mistake in the end-it was their contractor's.  As to what that means, IANAL.

Don't you think (El Al is going to end up suing and) the contractor will end up taking the loss, not El Al?

[Dan]

Don't you think (El Al is going to end up suing and) the contractor will end up taking the loss, not El Al?

No clue. IANAL.

[asd]

Dan the issue here is did you ask a shailah before you tweeted it ,and if not should you have. R Marburger is a competent dayan (well respected in lakewood)so there is realisticly at least 2 tzedodim here and as smart as you are you still cannot pasken a choshen mishput shailah

[Dan]

Dan the issue here is did you ask a shailah before you tweeted it ,and if not should you have. R Marburger is a competent dayan (well respected in lakewood)so there is realisticly at least 2 tzedodim here and as smart as you are you still cannot pasken a choshen mishput shailah

He may be a competent dayan but he doesn't have a full grasp of the issues as I outlined, he assumes that I know who's mistake this was, and yes, I'll be waiting for the apology for the lashon hara.

Frankly he may have done well to contact me first...

[jj1000]

Dan the issue here is did you ask a shailah before you tweeted it ,and if not should you have. R Marburger is a competent dayan (well respected in lakewood)so there is realisticly at least 2 tzedodim here and as smart as you are you still cannot pasken a choshen mishput shailah

It could be he didn't/doesn't know all the details and in's and out's like Dan does... Which seems apparent from the fact that he didn't address the above mentioned points Dan made.

Also smicha allows one to paskan. No?

[asd]

really did dan learn the entire laws of choshen mishput

[Dan]

really did dan learn the entire laws of choshen mishput

You can be the most learned person in the entire world, but without having a clear grasp on all of the facts of the particular case in question it's meaningless.

I don't claim to be anyone's posek, but if someone is going to publicly call me out they had better know all the facts and then authoritatively call me out.

[Ergel]

Frankly he may have done well to contact me first...

I think this point is the only 100% true point in this from any of the sides

[jj1000]

really did dan learn the entire laws of choshen mishput

Really is that what I asked? Did Rabbi Marburger look into the airline industry first? He said himself he doesn't even know the price of a ticket to Israel. I'd be embarrassed to give such a shiur and paskan a halacha not knowing the in's and out's. You make it like Dan can't pasken but the person who did didn't even know what he was talking about and made a rule for all kalal yisroel as an authoritative figure. I see some hypocrisy in that. Excuse my ignorance. I don't mean to be rude or challenge his authority just I am at a loss for understanding this 1 case. I would love an explanation.

[AsherO]

No clue. IANAL.

You don't have an ("off the record") assumption one way or another?

I'm asking because if the (presumably) non-Jewish-owned subcontractor takes the loss, then I don't think the conclusions you quoted in the OP still holds water (even if you assume it's otherwise valid).

He may be a competent dayan but he doesn't have a full grasp of the issues as I outlined, he assumes that I know who's mistake this was, and yes, I'll be waiting for the apology for the lashon hara.

If he's wrong (not saying he is) it's Hotsa'as shem ra.

One other thing (for anyone who listened to the whole thing): Did Rabbi Marburger qualify his conclusions saying he's voicing his opinion, or how he see's things, his understanding etc.?

Just a P.s. I love how people (Rabbis included) casually define "Dina Demalchusa Dina" ad-hoc. What are their sources? (I'm not just referring to the OP, some DDFers (not to compare them to Rabbi Marburger) acted similarly recently)

[asd]

i was just responding to the question if you can pasken chosen mishput and you never answered my question did you or should have you asked a shailah and it would be helpful to your readers to knowif we could rely on you that based on the fact that you are an upstanding frum jew do you have halachic backing .

[Dan]

You don't have an ("off the record") assumption one way or another?

I'm asking because if the (presumably) non-Jewish-owned subcontractor takes the loss, then I don't think the conclusions you quoted in the OP still holds water (even if you assume it's otherwise valid).

If he's wrong (not saying he is) it's Hotsa'as shem ra.

I'm sure El Al will try to sue them or settle with them.

[AsherO]

i was just responding to the question if you can pasken chosen mishput and you never answered my question did you or should have you asked a shailah and it would be helpful to your readers to knowif we could rely on you that based on the fact that you are an upstanding frum jew ever you have halachic backing .

Do you ask a shaila every time you post on DDF? If Dan didn't (and doesn't) see anything wrong with his posting the deal, then why (or what?) should he have asked?

I'm sure El Al will try to sue them or settle with them.

I think so too. Do we know if they're a Jewish company?

[jj1000]

i was just responding to the question if you can pasken chosen mishput and you never answered my question did you or should have you asked a shailah and it would be helpful to your readers to knowif we could rely on you that based on the fact that you are an upstanding frum jew do you have halachic backing .

Please direct where you asked anyone if Dan can pasken chosen mishpat??? (All you said is that is the issue that's a far cry from a directed question) Also if you don't quote anyone know one knows who you are talking to...