Author Topic: Landlord Issue  (Read 5268 times)

Offline puddles

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Aug 2010
  • Posts: 1101
  • Total likes: 27
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 2
    • View Profile
  • Location: Five Towns
Landlord Issue
« on: August 24, 2012, 09:39:06 AM »
So my co-worker (non Jewish) was renting an apartment somewhere in Brooklyn from a Frum (Jewish) landlord. Unfortunately, the landlord wax extremely dishonest in a lot of his dealing and attempted to cash rent checks that he said were lost (so my coworker had written new ones).
At this point, the coworkers lease expired and left the apartment 60 days ago. He has yet to get back his security deposit ($2900)  despite repeated calls, emails and letters to the landlord. I can not understate how embarrassing this is for me and how much of Chillul Hashem this man is making. All day he is complaining (rightfully) about how Orthodox Jews are supposed to be honest etc. and instead he is getting a complete runaround.
I am looking for suggestions and opinions on this. Should I try and intervene? Call a Rav in the neighborhood to have him help? All suggestions are welcome.

Offline MosheP

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Jun 2010
  • Posts: 1486
  • Total likes: 9
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Landlord Issue
« Reply #1 on: August 24, 2012, 10:13:33 AM »
So my co-worker (non Jewish) was renting an apartment somewhere in Brooklyn from a Frum (Jewish) landlord. Unfortunately, the landlord wax extremely dishonest in a lot of his dealing and attempted to cash rent checks that he said were lost (so my coworker had written new ones).
At this point, the coworkers lease expired and left the apartment 60 days ago. He has yet to get back his security deposit ($2900)  despite repeated calls, emails and letters to the landlord. I can not understate how embarrassing this is for me and how much of Chillul Hashem this man is making. All day he is complaining (rightfully) about how Orthodox Jews are supposed to be honest etc. and instead he is getting a complete runaround.
I am looking for suggestions and opinions on this. Should I try and intervene? Call a Rav in the neighborhood to have him help? All suggestions are welcome.

First of all this isnt about you, no need to mix in your personal feelings. Regarding making a Kiddush Hashem, your mixing in will probably not do that. Why not start with asking a Rav, or better yet your Rav.

You can let your co-worker know that this landlord certainly  does not represent greater Orthodox Jewry. You do not have to make excuses for yourself, your coreligionist, or anyone else.

Offline elizmm

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite
  • ****
  • Join Date: Jun 2008
  • Posts: 419
  • Total likes: 0
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
    • View Profile
    • 404 - Page not found
  • Location: Loading.... 2 out of 7 Complete
Re: Landlord Issue
« Reply #2 on: August 24, 2012, 10:23:07 AM »
First of all this isnt about you, no need to mix in your personal feelings. Regarding making a Kiddush Hashem, your mixing in will probably not do that. Why not start with asking a Rav, or better yet your Rav.

You can let your co-worker know that this landlord certainly  does not represent greater Orthodox Jewry. You do not have to make excuses for yourself, your coreligionist, or anyone else.

There are usually 2 sides to each story... but if you are 100% certain that the landlord was being dishonest then you should call him out on it, post the landlord info on this thread and I'm sure he will get many emails/calls admonishing him..
It is all from Hashem and he will continue to give!

Offline puddles

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Aug 2010
  • Posts: 1101
  • Total likes: 27
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 2
    • View Profile
  • Location: Five Towns
Re: Landlord Issue
« Reply #3 on: August 24, 2012, 10:25:27 AM »
First of all this isnt about you, no need to mix in your personal feelings. Regarding making a Kiddush Hashem, your mixing in will probably not do that. Why not start with asking a Rav, or better yet your Rav.

You can let your co-worker know that this landlord certainly  does not represent greater Orthodox Jewry. You do not have to make excuses for yourself, your coreligionist, or anyone else.
My personal feelings are that I suffer at work listening to him talk negatively about this person. Obviously I told my coworker that this man is a scumbag but I would like to show him that a good person would try and help him.

Offline puddles

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Aug 2010
  • Posts: 1101
  • Total likes: 27
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 2
    • View Profile
  • Location: Five Towns
Re: Landlord Issue
« Reply #4 on: August 24, 2012, 10:28:40 AM »
There are usually 2 sides to each story... but if you are 100% certain that the landlord was being dishonest then you should call him out on it, post the landlord info on this thread and I'm sure he will get many emails/calls admonishing him..
I have seen emails and heard phone calls from the landlord. Hes a jerk.

Offline MosheP

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Jun 2010
  • Posts: 1486
  • Total likes: 9
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Landlord Issue
« Reply #5 on: August 24, 2012, 10:36:41 AM »
My personal feelings are that I suffer at work listening to him talk negatively about this person. Obviously I told my coworker that this man is a scumbag but I would like to show him that a good person would try and help him.

I dont think you need to tell your co-worker that the landlord is a scumbag, it is pretty obvious from his account of the story. There does exist the possibility that there is another side to the story.


You can be a good person to him without mixing in. There are many ways to make a Kiddush Hashem.

Offline puddles

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Aug 2010
  • Posts: 1101
  • Total likes: 27
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 2
    • View Profile
  • Location: Five Towns
Re: Landlord Issue
« Reply #6 on: August 24, 2012, 10:41:21 AM »
I dont think you need to tell your co-worker that the landlord is a scumbag, it is pretty obvious from his account of the story. There does exist the possibility that there is another side to the story.


You can be a good person to him without mixing in. There are many ways to make a Kiddush Hashem.
I think my mixing in might be able to help. If I can show this landlord that someone like him knows what hes doing maybe he will be embarrassed enough to do the right thing. People do things like this when they think no one knows...

Offline MosheP

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Jun 2010
  • Posts: 1486
  • Total likes: 9
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Landlord Issue
« Reply #7 on: August 24, 2012, 10:50:10 AM »
I think my mixing in might be able to help. If I can show this landlord that someone like him knows what hes doing maybe he will be embarrassed enough to do the right thing. People do things like this when they think no one knows...

I disagree, assuming this is true the landlord obviously has no morals, as well as a total lack of concern for the negative light he brings onto the Jewish people. He already committed the crime, and if he will be embarrassed by your knowing, there is no reason for him to rectify it. I would focus on doing positive actions to show that Jews really are nice, thereby disassociating this landlord from the rest of us.

Offline Lamdan

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite + Lifetime Gold Elite
  • ******
  • Join Date: Jul 2011
  • Posts: 754
  • Total likes: 9
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
  • Location: New Jersey
Re: Landlord Issue
« Reply #8 on: August 24, 2012, 11:24:53 AM »
I think my mixing in might be able to help. If I can show this landlord that someone like him knows what hes doing maybe he will be embarrassed enough to do the right thing. People do things like this when they think no one knows...
There's a good chance he'll treat you the same way he treated his tenant, or worse.
DD.com Main Site Deals 0 = DDF Loser

Offline DrDanny

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Feb 2012
  • Posts: 1176
  • Total likes: 2
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
  • Location: Detroit/NewYork/PalmBeach
Re: Landlord Issue
« Reply #9 on: August 24, 2012, 11:44:00 AM »
There's a good chance he'll treat you the same way he treated his tenant, or worse.
he doesnt have much on you a rude phone call with a man you despise and is not in control doesnt really hurt

Offline eliteflyer

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Jul 2008
  • Posts: 1519
  • Total likes: 60
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Repair Costs
« Reply #10 on: December 19, 2012, 11:56:17 PM »
What would you do?

Mrs. EliteFlyer and I have been living in a first floor apartment for several years in relative peace with my landlord who lives upstairs. There is no formal written lease in place. When we moved in, he stated that with regard to repair-related expenses, he would take care of the "big things" and we should take care of the "small things."

As the months went on, it never became clear what this policy meant: There were in fact some big things that he refused to fix and some small things that he paid for. For example, when the included washer broke, he refused to replace it, claiming he rented the apartment "as is." On the other hand, on the occasions that the faucet in the bathtub would break and continuously flow, he would (reluctantly) call a plumber to fix it.

My wife and I have taken good care of the apartment, keep it clean (unlike some of his previous tenants) and prefer to have a cordial relationship with our landlord, particularly because he lives in the same house. Thus, we have repaired some items at our own expense with out even calling him (such as buying a new shower head and hose and doing some minor repairs on the toilet and sink drain).

This past week, the heat was out for several days, and we called to let him know. The reality is that it was not working in his apartment either. He repaired it without incident. Then today, I noticed that the faucet was leaking in the bathtub again. This seems to happen every 4-6 months, and I suspect that each time he repairs it, he has the plumber buy the cheapest supplies possible. I never recall having a leaky bathtub so often growing up!

I called the landlord, and he blew up at me that he is not responsible for "small things like the plumbing." He goes on to tell me that he thinks its wrong that we expect him to do "everything" while we sit back and do "nothing." I politely, but firmly told him that it is is house, and his water bill, and my call was intended as a courtesy to him. Moreover, such is the nature of a lease: I pay rent every month and this is not my home to do routine repairs on. Of course, if I damage something, I will repair it.

We left the conversation there. I would not be surprised if he ends up getting a plumber himself, but I am considering just calling a plumber and taking care of it on my own if he does nothing in the next few days. Our rent is at a decent price, and I would prefer not to rock the boat too much. In the three years we have been here, the rent was only moderately raised once, and that was a few months ago.  Perhaps its worth overlooking who is technically or legally in the right here and just repair it myself.

What would you do?

Offline meshugener

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Feb 2012
  • Posts: 6959
  • Total likes: 62
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 4
  • Gender: Female
    • View Profile
  • Location: DDF
  • Programs: Amex Platinum, Chase Freedom 10X10 Exclusives, Avis Presidents Club, National Executive, Hertz 5 Star, Hilton Gold, Accor Platinum, Hyatt Platinum, Marriott Silver, SPG Gold, Club Carlson Gold
Re: Landlord Issue
« Reply #11 on: December 20, 2012, 01:55:27 AM »
Just for the future: always have a written lease.
Love me or hate me. I still love you.

Offline Chaikel

  • Global Moderator
  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • **********
  • Join Date: Jun 2008
  • Posts: 6842
  • Total likes: 174
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 20
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Programs: LH SEN, SPG Plat, Hyatt Plat, Rav Kav Platinum
Re: Landlord Issue
« Reply #12 on: December 20, 2012, 03:57:36 AM »
Just for the future: always have a written lease.
+1
Such a big mistake. Even between 2 of the nicest people in the world. Don't you at least want the security of knowing he wont kick you out the next day. Yes you have squatters rights, but do you really wanna start fighting in court?
Create professional looking itineraries.
Check out eliteitinerary.com

Offline dirah

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Jan 2010
  • Posts: 1285
  • Total likes: 28
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
Re: Landlord Issue
« Reply #13 on: December 20, 2012, 03:58:27 AM »
Sad to day, but כששוכרים משלנו ...

Offline eliteflyer

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Jul 2008
  • Posts: 1519
  • Total likes: 60
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Landlord Issue
« Reply #14 on: December 20, 2012, 08:17:08 AM »
Just for the future: always have a written lease.

This may be true, but in our case, the last 3 years have worked out more or less uneventfully. I will likely look for a written lease on our next unit which we may start looking for in the spring/summer. Also, I suspect that even with a written lease, in this case there would have been haggling over who repairs what unless the item of repair made the home "uninhabitable" such as no heat in the winter or leaking rood etc.

Also, as I said earlier in the post, our rent has remained at or below market rate for the last 3 years and that ultimately was better off for us financially speaking. Again, were not talking about egregious conditions overtaking the apartment.

Offline Chaikel

  • Global Moderator
  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • **********
  • Join Date: Jun 2008
  • Posts: 6842
  • Total likes: 174
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 20
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Programs: LH SEN, SPG Plat, Hyatt Plat, Rav Kav Platinum
Re: Landlord Issue
« Reply #15 on: December 20, 2012, 08:23:50 AM »
This may be true, but in our case, the last 3 years have worked out more or less uneventfully. I will likely look for a written lease on our next unit which we may start looking for in the spring/summer. Also, I suspect that even with a written lease, in this case there would have been haggling over who repairs what unless the item of repair made the home "uninhabitable" such as no heat in the winter or leaking rood etc.
Just because nothing really happened is not an excuse. And we're not saying a lease would fix all your problems, just that it's not smart to play with fire, and you should always take basic steps to protect yourself
Create professional looking itineraries.
Check out eliteitinerary.com

Offline Ergel

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Jun 2010
  • Posts: 13070
  • Total likes: 905
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 3
    • View Profile
Re: Landlord Issue
« Reply #16 on: December 20, 2012, 08:39:03 AM »
I agree he should have a lease but it would definitely not have helped in this situation. I know it's not under your control but the only solution is to have a landlord who is a mentch. Without that, you will end up squabbling and if it's not too much cash you are probably better off taking care of it yourself
Life isn't about checking the boxes. Nobody cares.

Offline AJK

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 20K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Jun 2011
  • Posts: 25499
  • Total likes: 723
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 15
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Programs: United Concierge Key; Delta Global Services; American Chairman; US Airways 1K; Hilton Sapphire; Hyatt Tritium; Marriott Californium; Starwood Kryptonium; Hertz Plutonium; National Adamantium, Avis Executive Proactanium
Re: Landlord Issue
« Reply #17 on: December 20, 2012, 09:12:23 AM »
Just for the future: always have a written lease.

+1
Such a big mistake. Even between 2 of the nicest people in the world. Don't you at least want the security of knowing he wont kick you out the next day. Yes you have squatters rights, but do you really wanna start fighting in court?

-1

He has a lease -- it's just not written.

Good luck to the landlord that tries to kick him out of the unit at this point.
2015: 116K bkd | 1.6M brnd | F: OZ,NH,AA,EK | J: UA,CA,TK,DL,TN,AF,VA | LIH,NRT,ROR,PEK,CNS,BOB,MEL,TLV & Pacific Hopper

Offline Chaikel

  • Global Moderator
  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • **********
  • Join Date: Jun 2008
  • Posts: 6842
  • Total likes: 174
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 20
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Programs: LH SEN, SPG Plat, Hyatt Plat, Rav Kav Platinum
Re: Landlord Issue
« Reply #18 on: December 20, 2012, 09:16:07 AM »
-1

He has a lease -- it's just not written.

Good luck to the landlord that tries to kick him out of the unit at this point.
I really don't think he has an interest in going down to court once a month
Create professional looking itineraries.
Check out eliteitinerary.com

Offline AJK

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 20K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Jun 2011
  • Posts: 25499
  • Total likes: 723
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 15
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Programs: United Concierge Key; Delta Global Services; American Chairman; US Airways 1K; Hilton Sapphire; Hyatt Tritium; Marriott Californium; Starwood Kryptonium; Hertz Plutonium; National Adamantium, Avis Executive Proactanium
Re: Landlord Issue
« Reply #19 on: December 20, 2012, 09:19:48 AM »
Written lease doesn't protect you from that...
2015: 116K bkd | 1.6M brnd | F: OZ,NH,AA,EK | J: UA,CA,TK,DL,TN,AF,VA | LIH,NRT,ROR,PEK,CNS,BOB,MEL,TLV & Pacific Hopper