Author Topic: Was Rav Elyashiv murdered??!  (Read 22741 times)

Offline shmuelb

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Re: Was Rav Elyashiv murdered??!
« Reply #45 on: September 04, 2012, 07:53:06 AM »
and we feel we're on th elevel to speculate about rav elyashiv? or about anyone for that matter?

The OP was about a magid shiur in the MIR, not some "meshugena lamdan" on ddf, nothing personal. The gedolim have spoken about this. I just saw a sign today quoting Rav Chaim Kanievsky and iirc Rav AYL Shteinman Shlita, both expressing such sentiments, that because of people's aveirus, lo yireh becha ervas davar, there are tragedies happening in the recent past.

My friend was by Rav Avigdor Miller ZT"L when the Gadol Hador was niftar. They asked Rav Miller why it happened. He said "what do you think, he should live forever? He lived to a ripe old age." Afterwards he explained that lemaisa the reason was because we did not value and appreciate the Gadol enough. He used to give a shiur in his home and very few people would bother to go. That is why he was taken from us. If we don't appreciate the gedolim, Hashem takes them away.

It is clear that even when a Gadol is nifter at an old age, we still should learn from it.

Chaikel, if you have a point about kosher phones, how is that relevant here?
siyag lachachma :-)

Offline Moishebatchy

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Re: Was Rav Elyashiv murdered??!
« Reply #46 on: September 04, 2012, 08:22:16 AM »
The Kosher phone was implemented by R Nosson Tzvi Finkel Zt"L. I know this firsthand. I have heard rumors certain features, such as texting, camera, games, etc were removed due to various other pressures.

That's not to say there's no corruption, I even know of a little of it personally.

That has always been my pet peeve. What does a camera or games have to do with "kosher"? Yes, if I waste time playing Snake when I should be learning, that is bittul torah - a terrible thing, true, but it has nothing to do with purity! The original stated intent of a "kosher" phone was to fight the "tarfus" of the Internet; why are we mixing in other things? What's next - a phone that prevents you from eating non-cholov yisroel? A phone that makes sure you wear tzitzis? Those are all wonderful things, but what do they have to do with fighting pritzus?

The Kosher phone was implemented by R Nosson Tzvi Finkel Zt"L. I know this firsthand. I have heard rumors certain features, such as texting, camera, games, etc were removed due to various other pressures.

That's not to say there's no corruption, I even know of a little of it personally.

Can you elaborate on these two points, please?

Offline Moishebatchy

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Re: Was Rav Elyashiv murdered??!
« Reply #47 on: September 04, 2012, 08:23:48 AM »
Chaikel, if you have a point about kosher phones, how is that relevant here?
If he was killed by phones, it was by the scam artists that created kosher phones, and by all the other menuvalim bcvod hatorah who made up psakim from R Elyashev just so they could make millions

Offline shmuelb

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Re: Was Rav Elyashiv murdered??!
« Reply #48 on: September 04, 2012, 08:40:20 AM »
made up psakim...

What does that have to do with this discussion? How many people made up psakim from poskim? That is why there are tragedies?
siyag lachachma :-)

Offline A European

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Re: Was Rav Elyashiv murdered??!
« Reply #49 on: September 04, 2012, 08:52:32 AM »
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Offline Moishebatchy

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Re: Was Rav Elyashiv murdered??!
« Reply #50 on: September 04, 2012, 08:52:49 AM »
What does that have to do with this discussion? How many people made up psakim from poskim? That is why there are tragedies?
Well, the argument du jour here seems to be that aveiros cause tragedies. Making up all kinds of garbage, then lying and saying a gadol said it, is an aveirah, no? Besides, you yourself just said...
My friend was by Rav Avigdor Miller ZT"L when the Gadol Hador was niftar. They asked Rav Miller why it happened. He said "what do you think, he should live forever? He lived to a ripe old age." Afterwards he explained that lemaisa the reason was because we did not value and appreciate the Gadol enough. He used to give a shiur in his home and very few people would bother to go. That is why he was taken from us. If we don't appreciate the gedolim, Hashem takes them away.
Wouldn't you agree that someone who knowingly lies - on a large scale - about what a gadol said, can safely be accused of not appreciating said gadol? One who truly appreciates a gadol would not dare besmirch him like that!

Offline Drago

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Re: Was Rav Elyashiv murdered??!
« Reply #51 on: September 04, 2012, 10:30:50 AM »

It is clear that even when a Gadol is nifter at an old age, we still should learn from it.

Correct. We should do our best to improve ourselves, but not b/c a gadol passes away, but b/c we're ALWAYS supposed to be doing that.

But the problem that this thread was begun to address is our ability to give reasons for what happened.

So I could make a case that since the biggest aveirah is chillul hashem, (if you judge it be the difficulty of doing teshuva) that his death was due to ppl throwing rocks at cars on shabbos to protest them, and not guys looking at porn. But I won't, b/c I don't claim to know Hashem's reasons.

(And anyhow, isn't ironic how ppl always find Hashem's reasoning to be in perfect harmony with their own?)

Offline Moishebatchy

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Re: Was Rav Elyashiv murdered??!
« Reply #52 on: September 04, 2012, 10:36:04 AM »
(And anyhow, isn't ironic how ppl always find Hashem's reasoning to be in perfect harmony with their own?)

I know I said this about something else already, but...

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Offline Chaikel

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Re: Was Rav Elyashiv murdered??!
« Reply #53 on: September 04, 2012, 11:16:37 AM »
The Kosher phone was implemented by R Nosson Tzvi Finkel Zt"L.
Was not. He joined after they released them, and then they made it sound like he was along from the beginning.
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Offline Lamdan

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Re: Was Rav Elyashiv murdered??!
« Reply #54 on: September 04, 2012, 03:02:03 PM »
That has always been my pet peeve. What does a camera or games have to do with "kosher"? Yes, if I waste time playing Snake when I should be learning, that is bittul torah - a terrible thing, true, but it has nothing to do with purity! The original stated intent of a "kosher" phone was to fight the "tarfus" of the Internet; why are we mixing in other things? What's next - a phone that prevents you from eating non-cholov yisroel? A phone that makes sure you wear tzitzis? Those are all wonderful things, but what do they have to do with fighting pritzus?
Pet peeve of mine too. Keep focus on the big problem. I heard when the gedolim assered TV, it was proposed to assur radio also, and the gedolim held it would weaken the strength of the issur on TV, vehamayvin yavin.
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Offline damaxer91

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Re: Was Rav Elyashiv murdered??!
« Reply #55 on: September 04, 2012, 04:30:43 PM »
I think that the issue at hand is that in E"Y there are lots of things that start out as Lishma (e.g kosher phones) but once they have the gedolim on board, the mafioso who run the newspapers, mikva's etc hijack it and turn it into a business

Offline PlatinumGuy

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Re: Was Rav Elyashiv murdered??!
« Reply #56 on: September 04, 2012, 04:39:47 PM »
I think that the issue at hand is that in E"Y there are lots of things that start out as Lishma (e.g kosher phones) but once they have the gedolim on board, the mafioso who run the newspapers, mikva's etc hijack it and turn it into a business
If only their interest would be money...
Purpose > Pleasure

Offline Moishebatchy

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Re: Was Rav Elyashiv murdered??!
« Reply #57 on: September 04, 2012, 05:27:00 PM »
I think that the issue at hand is that in E"Y there are lots of things that start out as Lishma (e.g kosher phones) but once they have the gedolim on board, the mafioso who run the newspapers, mikva's etc hijack it and turn it into a business

And now, for the third time this thread...

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Offline Moishebatchy

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Re: Was Rav Elyashiv murdered??!
« Reply #58 on: September 04, 2012, 05:27:30 PM »
If only their interest would be money...

...then what is it?

Offline PlatinumGuy

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Re: Was Rav Elyashiv murdered??!
« Reply #59 on: September 04, 2012, 05:34:17 PM »
...then what is it?
The interest of the ex editors of yated (forgot what they call their new paper) is not money. They have an entire agenda to promote, including other gedolim.
Purpose > Pleasure