Author Topic: Was Rav Elyashiv murdered??!  (Read 24422 times)

Offline shmuelb

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Re: Was Rav Elyashiv murdered??!
« Reply #15 on: September 03, 2012, 04:01:29 PM »
If it's dirty, you should use one of those special soft rags to wipe it down. Otherwise, it'll stop working b/f it should, and it won't look good on dates.

and leitzanus achas ...

this is seriously talking about nefashos, life and death. ELUL!!!
siyag lachachma :-)

Offline meshugener

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Re: Was Rav Elyashiv murdered??!
« Reply #16 on: September 03, 2012, 06:27:08 PM »
Just a reminder: this is a secular forum (which accidentally attracted an out-of-proportion crowd of religious hawks), so please be tolerant. Thanks.
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Re: Was Rav Elyashiv murdered??!
« Reply #17 on: September 03, 2012, 06:33:00 PM »
The Rambam has some nasty words to say about someone who thinks like you. I'll post the exact quote later if I have time to find it. It ain't pretty.
Toisfos and Rabeinu Bachai, to name 2.

But yes, thats an interesting Rambam.
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Offline DH Data Recovery

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Re: Was Rav Elyashiv murdered??!
« Reply #18 on: September 03, 2012, 06:42:28 PM »
This is very strange to me. He was ka"h a very old man and lived a beautiful and fruitful and exemplary life that most people wish they could have - and we are trying to blame his death on something as if he nebach died at 50 in a car accident chas veshalom!! cmon! most gedolim didn't live to be that old and pass away with a clear mind!! he said vidui in his last years many times! he lived a beautiful life and then went on to his rightful place - why ion the world are we trivializing his life and death with nonsence!
so from now on every tzaddik that doesn't live till 120 will be blamed on technology?? what happened before tech

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Re: Was Rav Elyashiv murdered??!
« Reply #19 on: September 03, 2012, 06:51:54 PM »
This is very strange to me. He was ka"h a very old man and lived a beautiful and fruitful and exemplary life that most people wish they could have - and we are trying to blame his death on something as if he nebach died at 50 in a car accident chas veshalom!! cmon! most gedolim didn't live to be that old and pass away with a clear mind!! he said vidui in his last years many times! he lived a beautiful life and then went on to his rightful place - why ion the world are we trivializing his life and death with nonsence!
so from now on every tzaddik that doesn't live till 120 will be blamed on technology?? what happened before tech
Youre mixing two things. Wether or not his age is relevant to the matter, is to the best of my knowledge a hashakfic question debated in the Rishonim (unless the Rambam is מודה there is also a קץ קצוב for certain, natural deaths? Not sure)

Assuming it was caused by aviros, which aveira caused it is obviously topic for speculation. The Ramban (end of toras Hashem temima) says it's a Miztvas Essa for one to attempt to understand why GD punishes oneself. So we are obligated to engage in such speculation.

However determining it as a fact requires a נביא.

Wether or not having a smartphone is an aviera is obviously another question. One of my Roshei Yeshiva has an iPhone for example.

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Offline DH Data Recovery

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Re: Was Rav Elyashiv murdered??!
« Reply #20 on: September 03, 2012, 07:14:00 PM »
My question is why do we assume he was niftar because of aveirus????? he wasn't niftar at age 50

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Re: Was Rav Elyashiv murdered??!
« Reply #21 on: September 03, 2012, 07:19:23 PM »
My question is why do we assume he was niftar because of aveirus????? he wasn't niftar at age 50
The rambam holds every death is caused by something whereas other rishonim hold a person is born with a specific life quota.
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Offline DH Data Recovery

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Re: Was Rav Elyashiv murdered??!
« Reply #22 on: September 03, 2012, 07:20:30 PM »
and we feel we're on th elevel to speculate about rav elyashiv? or about anyone for that matter?

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Re: Was Rav Elyashiv murdered??!
« Reply #23 on: September 03, 2012, 07:33:46 PM »
and we feel we're on th elevel to speculate about rav elyashiv? or about anyone for that matter?
The Ramban (end of toras Hashem temima) says it's a Miztvas Essa for one to attempt to understand why GD punishes oneself. So we are obligated to engage in such speculation.
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Offline DH Data Recovery

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Re: Was Rav Elyashiv murdered??!
« Reply #24 on: September 03, 2012, 07:34:56 PM »
Oneself or someone else?

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Re: Was Rav Elyashiv murdered??!
« Reply #25 on: September 03, 2012, 07:38:19 PM »
Oneself or someone else?
The loss of R Elyashiv is probably considered a personal loss to all, for example everyone is mechuyav to tear kriea.
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Re: Was Rav Elyashiv murdered??!
« Reply #26 on: September 03, 2012, 07:39:57 PM »
Mourning a tzadik is deifrent than trying to delve into the reasons of his loss

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Re: Was Rav Elyashiv murdered??!
« Reply #27 on: September 03, 2012, 07:45:00 PM »
Mourning a tzadik is deifrent than trying to delve into the reasons of his loss
But if kriea is reserved for personal losses, and yet we tear kriea fro the gadol hador, it would seem to classify it as a personal loss. Thus, it would seemingly fall under the Rambans chiyuv of delving into losses.
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Offline e-Lawyer

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Re: Was Rav Elyashiv murdered??!
« Reply #28 on: September 03, 2012, 07:53:32 PM »
who would know that by keeping my old trusty centro "dumb phone" I am saving the gedolim "one dumb phone at a time"
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Offline Lamdan

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Re: Was Rav Elyashiv murdered??!
« Reply #29 on: September 03, 2012, 07:57:37 PM »
Toisfos and Rabeinu Bachai, to name 2.

But yes, thats an interesting Rambam.
I'm talking about a different Rambam, but I am scared to misquote, I am still looking for it. Looking for Baki.
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