Author Topic: Was Rav Elyashiv murdered??!  (Read 40769 times)

Offline DH Data Recovery

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Re: Was Rav Elyashiv murdered??!
« Reply #20 on: September 03, 2012, 07:14:00 PM »
My question is why do we assume he was niftar because of aveirus????? he wasn't niftar at age 50

Offline PlatinumGuy

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Re: Was Rav Elyashiv murdered??!
« Reply #21 on: September 03, 2012, 07:19:23 PM »
My question is why do we assume he was niftar because of aveirus????? he wasn't niftar at age 50
The rambam holds every death is caused by something whereas other rishonim hold a person is born with a specific life quota.
״וזה כלל גדול: שישנא אדם כל דבר שקר. וכל מה שיוסיף שנאה לדרכי השקר – יוסיף אהבה לתורה.״ - אורחות צדיקים

Offline DH Data Recovery

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Re: Was Rav Elyashiv murdered??!
« Reply #22 on: September 03, 2012, 07:20:30 PM »
and we feel we're on th elevel to speculate about rav elyashiv? or about anyone for that matter?

Offline PlatinumGuy

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Re: Was Rav Elyashiv murdered??!
« Reply #23 on: September 03, 2012, 07:33:46 PM »
and we feel we're on th elevel to speculate about rav elyashiv? or about anyone for that matter?
The Ramban (end of toras Hashem temima) says it's a Miztvas Essa for one to attempt to understand why GD punishes oneself. So we are obligated to engage in such speculation.
״וזה כלל גדול: שישנא אדם כל דבר שקר. וכל מה שיוסיף שנאה לדרכי השקר – יוסיף אהבה לתורה.״ - אורחות צדיקים

Offline DH Data Recovery

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Re: Was Rav Elyashiv murdered??!
« Reply #24 on: September 03, 2012, 07:34:56 PM »
Oneself or someone else?

Offline PlatinumGuy

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Re: Was Rav Elyashiv murdered??!
« Reply #25 on: September 03, 2012, 07:38:19 PM »
Oneself or someone else?
The loss of R Elyashiv is probably considered a personal loss to all, for example everyone is mechuyav to tear kriea.
״וזה כלל גדול: שישנא אדם כל דבר שקר. וכל מה שיוסיף שנאה לדרכי השקר – יוסיף אהבה לתורה.״ - אורחות צדיקים

Offline DH Data Recovery

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Re: Was Rav Elyashiv murdered??!
« Reply #26 on: September 03, 2012, 07:39:57 PM »
Mourning a tzadik is deifrent than trying to delve into the reasons of his loss

Offline PlatinumGuy

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Re: Was Rav Elyashiv murdered??!
« Reply #27 on: September 03, 2012, 07:45:00 PM »
Mourning a tzadik is deifrent than trying to delve into the reasons of his loss
But if kriea is reserved for personal losses, and yet we tear kriea fro the gadol hador, it would seem to classify it as a personal loss. Thus, it would seemingly fall under the Rambans chiyuv of delving into losses.
״וזה כלל גדול: שישנא אדם כל דבר שקר. וכל מה שיוסיף שנאה לדרכי השקר – יוסיף אהבה לתורה.״ - אורחות צדיקים

Offline e-Lawyer

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Re: Was Rav Elyashiv murdered??!
« Reply #28 on: September 03, 2012, 07:53:32 PM »
who would know that by keeping my old trusty centro "dumb phone" I am saving the gedolim "one dumb phone at a time"
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Offline Lamdan

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Re: Was Rav Elyashiv murdered??!
« Reply #29 on: September 03, 2012, 07:57:37 PM »
Toisfos and Rabeinu Bachai, to name 2.

But yes, thats an interesting Rambam.
I'm talking about a different Rambam, but I am scared to misquote, I am still looking for it. Looking for Baki.
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Offline Lamdan

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Re: Was Rav Elyashiv murdered??!
« Reply #30 on: September 03, 2012, 07:58:44 PM »
Just a reminder: this is a secular forum (which accidentally attracted an out-of-proportion crowd of religious hawks), so please be tolerant. Thanks.
#lamdan
This may be a secular forum, but this is most definitely a religious thread.
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Offline Lamdan

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Re: Was Rav Elyashiv murdered??!
« Reply #31 on: September 03, 2012, 08:00:13 PM »

However determining it as a fact requires a נביא.

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Offline MarkS

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Re: Was Rav Elyashiv murdered??!
« Reply #32 on: September 03, 2012, 08:13:25 PM »
who would know that by keeping my old trusty centro "dumb phone" I am saving the gedolim "one dumb phone at a time"
When it comes to this, Centro's (with email, internet, texting etc) are smartphones!

Offline Galitzyaner

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Re: Was Rav Elyashiv murdered??!
« Reply #33 on: September 03, 2012, 10:23:51 PM »
The loss of R Elyashiv is probably considered a personal loss to all, for example everyone is mechuyav to tear kriea.
You mean you really tore kriya? Just askin'..
(not at all trying to ch'v belittle Rav Elyashiv in any way, just a matter of how personal this is -and for who..)
« Last Edit: September 03, 2012, 10:49:50 PM by Galitzyaner »

Offline AsherO

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Re: Was Rav Elyashiv murdered??!
« Reply #34 on: September 03, 2012, 10:37:06 PM »
The rambam holds every death is caused by something whereas other rishonim hold a person is born with a specific life quota.

Doesn't the gemara say:
Quote
ארבעה מתו בעטיו של נחש

And (hashgacha pratis today's daf):

Quote
אין ערוד ממית אלא החטא ממית

??
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Offline Drago

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Re: Was Rav Elyashiv murdered??!
« Reply #35 on: September 03, 2012, 10:49:32 PM »
That refers to j-s
Only b/c that's how they use it. How do we translate Ado..i?

Offline Drago

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Re: Was Rav Elyashiv murdered??!
« Reply #36 on: September 03, 2012, 10:53:07 PM »
The rambam holds every death is caused by something whereas other rishonim hold a person is born with a specific life quota.
I assume you say this statement referring to a gadol only, b/c the gemara says that deaths can happen even not 'in their time' if a person puts himself into the situation. (which obviously in not the case here, but you did you the term 'every')

Offline mclovin

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Re: Was Rav Elyashiv murdered??!
« Reply #37 on: September 03, 2012, 10:57:46 PM »
Only b/c that's how they use it. How do we translate Ado..i?
Master?

Offline PlatinumGuy

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Re: Was Rav Elyashiv murdered??!
« Reply #38 on: September 03, 2012, 11:23:06 PM »
@ashero, it is a big topic in rishonmin, will post sources tomorrow.

There's a letter from the Rambam, a tosifos kesuvos 33a
״וזה כלל גדול: שישנא אדם כל דבר שקר. וכל מה שיוסיף שנאה לדרכי השקר – יוסיף אהבה לתורה.״ - אורחות צדיקים

Offline Chaikel

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Re: Was Rav Elyashiv murdered??!
« Reply #39 on: September 04, 2012, 03:39:40 AM »
If he was killed by phones, it was by the scam artists that created kosher phones, and by all the other menuvalim bcvod hatorah who made up psakim from R Elyashev just so they could make millions
« Last Edit: September 04, 2012, 03:50:30 AM by Chaikel »
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