Author Topic: Where were you on September 11, 2001?  (Read 79496 times)

Offline Achas Veachas

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Re: Where were you on September 11, 2001?
« Reply #140 on: September 12, 2013, 02:20:31 PM »
Unfortunately, this isn't a war we can ever win.
It's nothing like any conventional war in the past.  Japan was bombed to defeat, life went back to normal.

If you really think life is going to go back to normal and we'll be boarding airplanes without security checks once again then you're delusional.  This isn't a war we can win.
We may not ever win, but we could get to a point where Americans decide that our economy and Freedom is more important to us than the 'War on Terror'.

Offline whYME

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Re: Where were you on September 11, 2001?
« Reply #141 on: September 12, 2013, 02:31:36 PM »
We may not ever win, but we could get to a point where Americans decide that our economy and Freedom is more important to us than the 'War on Terror'.
And then what? life goes back to the pre-9/11 normal?

Offline Achas Veachas

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Re: Where were you on September 11, 2001?
« Reply #142 on: September 12, 2013, 02:39:58 PM »
And then what? life goes back to the pre-9/11 normal?
Not pre 9/11 but not the craziness it is now either.

Offline ayman

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Re: Where were you on September 11, 2001?
« Reply #143 on: September 12, 2013, 02:40:12 PM »
And then what? life goes back to the pre-9/11 normal?
Maybe not exactly but some of the major restrictions may be lifted. Security checks lessened. CMMIW but already they are not as intense as immediately post 9/11. As time goes on some things have been added as a response to new developments (liquids were not prohibited at first) but others have become more lax.
The determining factor IMO will be what is a cost effective way to provide adequate security. If something will give security but cost too much it will not be implemented. If it will be a cheap solution (machines vs. humans) than it prob will stay even if the threat level isn't as great.
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Offline Achas Veachas

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Re: Where were you on September 11, 2001?
« Reply #144 on: September 12, 2013, 02:41:56 PM »
Maybe not exactly but some of the major restrictions may be lifted. Security checks lessened. CMMIW but already they are not as intense as immediately post 9/11. As time goes on some things have been added as a response to new developments (liquids were not prohibited at first) but others have become more lax.
The determining factor IMO will be what is a cost effective way to provide adequate security. If something will give security but cost too much it will not be implemented. If it will be a cheap solution (machines vs. humans) than it prob will stay even if the threat level isn't as great.
ETA +1 Achas Veachas
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Offline whYME

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Re: Where were you on September 11, 2001?
« Reply #145 on: September 12, 2013, 02:44:28 PM »
Right, because if decide that the war on terror is costing us too much and we need to end it the terrorists will just lay down their weapons...

Offline ayman

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Re: Where were you on September 11, 2001?
« Reply #146 on: September 12, 2013, 02:45:12 PM »
Unfortunately, this isn't a war we can ever win.
It's nothing like any conventional war in the past.  Japan was bombed to defeat, life went back to normal.

If you really think life is going to go back to normal and we'll be boarding airplanes without security checks once again then you're delusional.  This isn't a war we can win.
And you're right about this point, even if we somehow beat the radical muslims and their ideology they have sparked and idea of how to hit someone you don't like who is much more powerful than you.
Right, because if decide that the war on terror is costing us too much and we need to end it the terrorists will just lay down their weapons...
So the war will never end in the sense that ppl will hate and look for ways to harm. Therefore I do not believe we will be able to board planes w/o security checks in place. But the process may be modified due to costs and public outrage against invasion of privacy. At least until the next time America is attacked...
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Offline whYME

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Re: Where were you on September 11, 2001?
« Reply #147 on: September 12, 2013, 02:50:01 PM »
But the process may be modified due to costs and public outrage against invasion of privacy.
I don't think anybody disagrees with that, but the fact remains that
it totally changed America's perspective on terrorism, national security etc.

Exactly what programs are in place and how intrusive they are will fluctuate, but the country has changed forever. And I don't believe that's something that can be said about the Kennedy assassination.

Offline Dan

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Re: Where were you on September 11, 2001?
« Reply #148 on: September 12, 2013, 02:54:23 PM »
Maybe not exactly but some of the major restrictions may be lifted. Security checks lessened. CMMIW but already they are not as intense as immediately post 9/11.
-1. I have no idea what you're talking about. And I flew in the weeks before and after 9/11.

Now we can't bring liquids through, we take off our shoes, we allow the government to see through our very clothes just to board a plane.  In NYC you even have to state your name ::)
None of that was true on 09/20/11.

Aside for precheck, the TSA has only gotten crazier as time goes on.
Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.

Offline ayman

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Re: Where were you on September 11, 2001?
« Reply #149 on: September 12, 2013, 02:59:59 PM »
-1. I have no idea what you're talking about. And I flew in the weeks before and after 9/11.

Now we can't bring liquids through, we take off our shoes, we allow the government to see through our very clothes just to board a plane.  In NYC you even have to state your name ::)
None of that was true on 09/20/11.

Aside for precheck, the TSA has only gotten crazier as time goes on.
Those all got added as a result of other ppl trying new shtick. (underwear bomber, bomb in shoe, liquid explosives etc.)
But aren't some of the restrictions that were added being pulled back a little? some airports do not require removing shoes, you can bring (slightly) larger containers of liquids. You can now bring small scissors on board. (really small)
The extreme measures go in effect for a while and then are brought back down when they are too crazy.
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Offline whYME

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Re: Where were you on September 11, 2001?
« Reply #150 on: September 12, 2013, 03:01:00 PM »
the country has changed forever. And I don't believe that's something that can be said about the Kennedy assassination.
Even Pearl Harbor is different.
Sure it set off a chain of events which totally impacted and changed the entire world. 1,000,000x greater than 9/11's impact.
But how much of that was a direct outcome of PH?  I'm not so sure...

Have the events of Pearl Harbor itself (not that what it dragged us into WW2 and everything that came as a result) changed the country?

Offline Dan

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Re: Where were you on September 11, 2001?
« Reply #151 on: September 12, 2013, 03:01:05 PM »
True, but by the same token 4≠Many, many is a quantity not a precentage.
I'd disagree there.
Most people would say I have many siblings.
Many is definitely relative.  If 4 commercial planes had fatal crashes this year that would be way too many!
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Offline Dan

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Re: Where were you on September 11, 2001?
« Reply #152 on: September 12, 2013, 03:03:18 PM »
Those all got added as a result of other ppl trying new shtick. (underwear bomber, bomb in shoe, liquid explosives etc.)
But aren't some of the restrictions that were added being pulled back a little? some airports do not require removing shoes, you can bring (slightly) larger containers of liquids. You can now bring small scissors on board. (really small)
The extreme measures go in effect for a while and then are brought back down when they are too crazy.
The "new shtick" just goes to prove that we're never going to win this type of war.  In fact arguably we've already lost as the self-inflicted damages after 9/11 are truly massive and ongoing...

Which airports don't require removal of an adult's shoes?? (Again, not talking about pre-check enrollees)
Which airports allow liquids over 3 ounces?
Sources please!!!
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Offline whYME

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Re: Where were you on September 11, 2001?
« Reply #153 on: September 12, 2013, 03:05:20 PM »
Those all got added as a result of other ppl trying new shtick. (underwear bomber, bomb in shoe, liquid explosives etc.)
But aren't some of the restrictions that were added being pulled back a little? some airports do not require removing shoes, you can bring (slightly) larger containers of liquids. You can now bring small scissors on board. (really small)
The extreme measures go in effect for a while and then are brought back down when they are too crazy.
Right, but the fact that there's even a TSA, and that we're discussing what they should or shouldn't allow through is a result of 9/11

If not for 9/11 they would've looked at the shoe bomber and underwear bombers as one-off incidents and not changed the whole policy because of them.
Again,
it totally changed America's perspective on terrorism, national security etc.

Offline ayman

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Re: Where were you on September 11, 2001?
« Reply #154 on: September 12, 2013, 03:25:59 PM »
The "new shtick" just goes to prove that we're never going to win this type of war.  In fact arguably we've already lost as the self-inflicted damages after 9/11 are truly massive and ongoing...

Which airports don't require removal of an adult's shoes?? (Again, not talking about pre-check enrollees)
Which airports allow liquids over 3 ounces?
Sources please!!!
Could be mistaken but was recalling from personal experience flying. Could have been Orlando but don't remember for sure.
And I did agree that it won't go away completely because
even if we somehow beat the radical muslims and their ideology they have sparked and idea of how to hit someone you don't like who is much more powerful than you. So the war will never end in the sense that ppl will hate and look for ways to harm. Therefore I do not believe we will be able to board planes w/o security checks in place. But the process may be modified due to costs and public outrage against invasion of privacy. At least until the next time America is attacked...
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Offline Dan

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Re: Where were you on September 11, 2001?
« Reply #155 on: September 12, 2013, 03:31:07 PM »
Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.

Offline ayman

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Re: Where were you on September 11, 2001?
« Reply #156 on: September 12, 2013, 03:37:24 PM »
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Offline Achas Veachas

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Re: Where were you on September 11, 2001?
« Reply #157 on: September 12, 2013, 03:47:18 PM »
I actually flew home for Sukkos, like 3 weeks post 9/11, the line for security snaked around the terminal. And not because there were that many passangers, there were 7 people on my whole plane including crew....

Offline CountValentine

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Re: Where were you on September 11, 2001?
« Reply #158 on: September 12, 2013, 04:43:51 PM »
Biggest security change in my lifetime is when metal detectors were installed. They also screened carryon baggage. This had nothing to do with 9/11.
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Offline sky121

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Re: Where were you on September 11, 2001?
« Reply #159 on: September 12, 2013, 04:45:59 PM »
I guess I should appreciate being young and not really remembering "the good old days" of flying when it was less of a hassle. :)
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