Advice on Israel for Lag Bomer Itinerary

[Mikeoracle]

I was hoping some of the seasoned flyers would give their input on which of the below flights are the best and why taking into account;
I am flying with my wife and we both work so we are not looking to waste too much time on stops.
We would like to leave and return to the same airport
We dont want to spend too much time at any of the stops unless there is something to do and maybe a restaurant option
Points are not an issue so it is only worth flying in Economy if the Business legs are too much of a hassle (obviously if I would of found direct in business i would have booked them already)

After extensive research on *A availability leaving NYC or PHL between 4/25-4/28 and returning between 5/3-5/5 including all connecting options in FRA, MUC, VIE,ZRH,BRU here are the available flights i came up with;
 Going;
1) CO EWR-FRA 4/26 19:30-9:25 +1, LH FRA-TLV 22:25-3:20 +1 All Business
2) US PHL-FRA 4/25 16:15-6:10 +1, LH FRA-TLV 10:15-15:00 All Business
3) US PHL-ZRH 4/26 18:10-8:25 +1, LX ZRH-TLV 9:45-14:30 or 22:45-3:30 +1  All Business
4) CO EWR-TLV 4/25 or 4/26 16:00-9:25 +1 Direct flight in Economy
5) US PHL-TLV 4/25 or 4/26 21:15-15:15 +1 Direct flight in Economy

I will Post the return options in my next post

[Mikeoracle]

Returning options are;

1) LH TLV-FRA 5/3 16:45-20:00, CO FRA-EWR 5/4 11:20-14:00 All Business (same options for 5/4-5/5)
2) LH TLV-FRA 5/4 16:45-20:00, US FRA-PHL 5/5 11:10-14:00 All Business
3) LX TLV-ZRH 5/6 5:00-8:20, US ZRH-PHL 5/5 10:25-1:30 All Business
4) LX TLV-ZRH 5/3 15:55-19:10, US ZRH-PHL 5/4 10:25-13:30 All Business
5) LX TLV-ZRH 5/4 5:00-8:20 in Economy, US ZRH-PHL 5/4 10:25-13:30 in Business
6) CO TLV-EWR 5/5 or 5/6 11:25-16:35 Direct flight in Economy
7) US TLV-PHL 5/3, 5/4 or 5/5 23:55-5:30 +1 Direct flight in Economy


If it makes any difference I will be using ANA points (that is why I am trying to use CO or US for the long legs of the trip to avoid paying some or all of the taxes and fees they pass on).

Thanks for any input.

Also what are my options for a more decent hotel in J-M for some of these days preferably walking distance to the Kosel (i.e. the plaza or Citadel)

[steve2]

 do U guys work on Sun which 4/25 is? and if so if you work 1/2 a day will you lose alot of income?

 my .02;

#1 you could go to Mainz for the day but too long of a layover,IMO and hate getting into Israel at 3am as that means paying for the room even thou notusing it so you can get into it when you get in, not going to a hotel opens it up slightly

#2 with US you might get their older 332 on that flight to FRA and no lie flat seats but they say the best of USs Envoy seats better then the 767 or 757

 #3 If you do this ZRH is a beautiful City to walk around for the day and take a boat ride on the Lake, also a few restaurants to get some hot food in. I dont like the arrival time into TLV @ 3:30am but Id do it rather then straight connect simply to spend some time there.You got to work out what you would do with your carry-ons I think theres a storage locker but dont know their hrs off hand.W/o a plac eto leave the carry-ons Id go with the early connection. Could be since you will be flying onward you could simply leave themin teh Lounge and then go out, thats what Ive done in LHR,CDG,FRA etc etc with a long layover.

 #4 only advantage is EWR is close to NY and moretime in Israel

 #5 really comfortable seats on the 332 leather and well padded unlike COs wooden benches

 Myself Id go with #3 but it also depends on what the return flights are like and Id do that long layover

[steve2]

 since you said you both are working it seems #5 for 5/3 is best if anyway you wont go to work on 5/4 then #4 if getting back ASAP is what is important

Returning options are;

1) LH TLV-FRA 5/3 16:45-20:00, CO FRA-EWR 5/4 11:20-14:00 All Business (same options for 5/4-5/5)
2) LH TLV-FRA 5/4 16:45-20:00, US FRA-PHL 5/5 11:10-14:00 All Business
3) LX TLV-ZRH 5/6 5:00-8:20, US ZRH-PHL 5/5 10:25-1:30 All Business
4) LX TLV-ZRH 5/3 15:55-19:10, US ZRH-PHL 5/4 10:25-13:30 All Business
5) LX TLV-ZRH 5/4 5:00-8:20 in Economy, US ZRH-PHL 5/4 10:25-13:30 in Business
6) CO TLV-EWR 5/5 or 5/6 11:25-16:35 Direct flight in Economy
7) US TLV-PHL 5/3, 5/4 or 5/5 23:55-5:30 +1 Direct flight in Economy


If it makes any difference I will be using ANA points (that is why I am trying to use CO or US for the long legs of the trip to avoid paying some or all of the taxes and fees they pass on).

Thanks for any input.

Also what are my options for a more decent hotel in J-M for some of these days preferably walking distance to the Kosel (i.e. the plaza or Citadel)

[Mikeoracle]

since you said you both are working it seems #5 for 5/3 is best if anyway you wont go to work on 5/4 then #4 if getting back ASAP is what is important

Thanks for your input- #4 and #5 on the return both have the same ZRH-PHL leg landing 13:30 on 5/4- the only difference is that #5 has the TLV leg in Economy but at least it is a quick stop and no overnight necessary (plus a litlle more time in Israel)
Do you agree that whichever way we decied it is worth the stop and fly in business as oposed to direct in Economy, correct?

[Dan]

Thanks for your input- #4 and #5 on the return both have the same ZRH-PHL leg landing 13:30 on 5/4- the only difference is that #5 has the TLV leg in Economy but at least it is a quick stop and no overnight necessary (plus a litlle more time in Israel)
Do you agree that whichever way we decied it is worth the stop and fly in business as oposed to direct in Economy, correct?

Unless you want to stop and tour a European city I would just go nonstop in coach and get an exit row.
For me the whole point of business/first is to be more comfortable and rested and a stopover will accomplish neither.  Now if you want to explore the stopover city, that would be another story.

This is especially true since you will be paying extra $$$ for the stopover flights due to fuel surcharges only levied on those flights on not the nonstops.

Just my 2 cents.

[steve2]

Thanks for your input- #4 and #5 on the return both have the same ZRH-PHL leg landing 13:30 on 5/4- the only difference is that #5 has the TLV leg in Economy but at least it is a quick stop and no overnight necessary (plus a litlle more time in Israel)
Do you agree that whichever way we decied it is worth the stop and fly in business as oposed to direct in Economy, correct?

 Whoops missed that Dan is having an affect on Me lately LoL.

Id then go with #5 coach would be OK and by the time you get into ZRH at night and get settled in the Hotel no real time to do anything

but #7 looks best as youd get in early on 5/4 and might even beable to make it to work as well

[steve2]

Unless you want to stop and tour a European city I would just go nonstop in coach and get an exit row.
For me the whole point of business/first is to be more comfortable and rested and a stopover will accomplish neither.  Now if you want to explore the stopover city, that would be another story.

This is especially true since you will be paying extra $$$ for the stopover flights due to fuel surcharges only levied on those flights on not the nonstops.

Just my 2 cents.

 My old time favorite was a 6:30am arrival into LHR leaving my stuff in the Lounge and heading into Town till I headed back at 6:30pm so that I could get the last massage at the Spa (free to biz and FC passengers) on BA skipped the 1st connection that was 90 mins after landing

As long as I can shower up I prefer a stop over the non-stop even in Biz. nothing beats davening with my feet on the ground and no one pushinginto me ortrying to get by or tapping me asking if Im waiting to use the lav

but thats just me. You like chocolate and I like vanilla . 1 isnt any batter then the other, just different tastes. It also depends on what I will be doing and how much extra it will cost, and with what LHR and CDG is charging now I dont see myself going thru either and agree Id probably go with the non-stop unless it will be afull day down 7+ hrs

Only Id rather go US then CO

[SuperFlyer]

If you are losing money by not flying straight, and you are not to crazy about stops + you are asking whether to take eco or bus, that means that you are b"h not yet addicted to upper class.
Keep it that way, seriously. And fly eco, but CO. I wouldn't want to cure you all the way from flying....

[steve2]

 FWIW I go thru the samething almost every time I fly. I write up all my possible itns along with the cost, Then 1 by 1 X out those that dont work so well. Till Im down to 1-3 and then before finally wearing out the whole carpet just decide on 1 of them that fits best.

For TLV since I usually get a car I need to factor that in dont want to get it at say 10am and have a late night flight out and pay for a wholeday while only keeping it an extra 12 hrs. Also no sens egeting in and not being able to get into a Hotel room unles I paid for the previous night even thou I didnt sleep there. That too is apart of the chesbon and at times makes it very easy to chose.

Im sure had Dan spent the day he will be shortly in ZRH hed say do it, but you also have to figure out the cost, if the surcharges wil be alot then just leave it for another time

[steve2]

If you are losing money by not flying straight, and you are not to crazy about stops + you are asking whether to take eco or bus, that means that you are b"h not yet addicted to upper class.
Keep it that way, seriously. And fly eco, but CO. I wouldn't want to cure you all the way from flying....

 Have you ever flown USs 332 with their new seats?? I sat in them and would grab that any day over COs wooden benches. US uses only the 332s to TLV and thats in Envoy (Biz) or Coach. The 767s & 757s Id agree from what Ive read go CO but not with USs 332s

[Mikeoracle]

If you are losing money by not flying straight, and you are not to crazy about stops + you are asking whether to take eco or bus, that means that you are b"h not yet addicted to upper class.
Keep it that way, seriously. And fly eco, but CO. I wouldn't want to cure you all the way from flying....

I dont mind the stops as long as they make sense, I.E. a 6 hour stop with nothing to do is bad, but a full day stop with a place to eat and some nice things to check out is a plus. Or a minor 1.5-4 hour stop is not bad either. I am leaning more to flying business and would only go economy if the business flights just end up being a hassle.
Are there any Kosher places to eat in/near FRA or ZRH if i wanted to do option #1 or #3 on the way there and spend the full day in FRA/ZRH?

What about the way back stopping overnight in FRA with options #1 or #2? or in ZRH #4? Are they both a waste since I will be arriving in the evening and leaving in the morning?

[SuperFlyer]

As you can see, I'm a happy guy, so, no, I did not fly transatlantic with US.
My long domestic flights (kal vachomer short ones) with them, were of such high standard, that I'll be haunted forever.

They can compete with African buses earning inverted stars...

[steve2]

As you can see, I'm a happy guy, so, no, I did not fly transatlantic with US.
My long domestic flights (kal vachomer short ones) with them, were of such high standard, that I'll be haunted forever.

They can compete with African buses earning inverted stars...

 I AGREE with U, except in regards to their 332s it really is that GOOD! and  leaves CO still standing at the starting Gate, be it in Biz or Coach

[steve2]

I dont mind the stops as long as they make sense, I.E. a 6 hour stop with nothing to do is bad, but a full day stop with a place to eat and some nice things to check out is a plus. Or a minor 1.5-4 hour stop is not bad either. I am leaning more to flying business and would only go economy if the business flights just end up being a hassle.
Are there any Kosher places to eat in/near FRA or ZRH if i wanted to do option #1 or #3 on the way there and spend the full day in FRA/ZRH?

What about the way back stopping overnight in FRA with options #1 or #2? or in ZRH #4? Are they both a waste since I will be arriving in the evening and leaving in the morning?

 FRA really offers nothing to do there is a Fleshig place (its their food you will be eating on the plane) if you do go FRA go to Mainz for the day instead. Theres a train S8 from the airport that will get you there some 7-8 stops not far at all

 ZRH has the Shalom Fleshig (their food also on the plane) not far from the where the boats dock by the Lake and 2 milkhig places a bit of a walk but very doable. especially if you stay in the Hyatt area

 If you do either get in touch with me and I will get you set

 Ive done some late arrivals into CDG and out the next morn,  I was able to spend some more time in whatever City I was in. Leaving at say 8pm at night gave me the whole day to roam.But I wouldnt have done it if the purpose was to see Paris even by night.

 So unless you need the extra time in Israel not really worth it besides with a  late flight out youd have to check out of your room, leave the bags with security and forgo a shower after runnning around all day. If U dont mind that then keep it in play, unless your leaving on a Motzei Shabbos or Motzei Hag when the Hotels wont charge for the very late checkout, but youd get maybe an hour after zeman to be out

 Again this is only my Opin and Im sure not everyone will agree with it. I dont believe theres a Right way or Wrong way. Just what appeals to me might not to another and vice versa. just like I prefer an aisle seat over the window , yet many feel just the opposite

[SuperFlyer]

ZRH, is my place, FRA I leave to you.

[steve2]

ZRH, is my place, FRA I leave to you.

 can a person flying Biz or who for whatever reason has access to a Lounge arrive get to the Lounge Airside leave their carry-ons head into town and get back say @ 9pm to take the night flight to TLV w/o any problems? or is there a  bag room where its safe to leave ones carry-ons Locked of cause, if there is do U know what they charge and their hrs they are open?

of cause thers always using pts for a free room in town to leave the carry-ons , shower up and even get a nap. The Hyatt or SPG Neus Shlous would be ideal location wise the others arent centrally as located. as wella s both are walkable to the restaurants

[Mikeoracle]

I called up ANA and it seems since the points are in my account they can put a 48hr hold with no fees on an itinerary so I currently have;
4/25 US PHL-ZRH 18:10-8:25 +1 in business
4/26 LX ZRH-TLV 22:45-3:30 +1 in business
5/3 US TLV-PHL 23:55-5:30 +1 in economy
fees are $98.59 pp
Should I consider returning 5/4 5am to ZRH in economy and then 2 hour stop and US to PHL in Business? or is that just a waste and might as well fly direct on US in E as per my reservation?

[steve2]

I called up ANA and it seems since the points are in my account they can put a 48hr hold with no fees on an itinerary so I currently have;
4/25 US PHL-ZRH 18:10-8:25 +1 in business
4/26 LX ZRH-TLV 22:45-3:30 +1 in business
5/3 US TLV-PHL 23:55-5:30 +1 in economy
fees are $98.59 pp
Should I consider returning 5/4 5am to ZRH in economy and then 2 hour stop and US to PHL in Business? or is that just a waste and might as well fly direct on US in E as per my reservation?

 not bad on the fees as a non-stop to/from TLV is $43 I would think if you coming back via ZRH it would be another $50 on top of the $98 per person

 wait I think you told me that even if returning in Coach ANA will charge you as if it was Biz both ways, if thats true then you might as well pay the extra $50 and return via ZRH maybe if its available at TLV Swiss will give you the Biz seats since you have a Biz tkt.

 otherwise if ANA will charge 1/2 Biz going and 1/2 Coach returning for the non-stop Id go with the TLV-PHL non-stop

[Dan]

I called up ANA and it seems since the points are in my account they can put a 48hr hold with no fees on an itinerary so I currently have;
4/25 US PHL-ZRH 18:10-8:25 +1 in business
4/26 LX ZRH-TLV 22:45-3:30 +1 in business
5/3 US TLV-PHL 23:55-5:30 +1 in economy
fees are $98.59 pp
Should I consider returning 5/4 5am to ZRH in economy and then 2 hour stop and US to PHL in Business? or is that just a waste and might as well fly direct on US in E as per my reservation?

Your itin looks good as is to me.
How many miles?