Author Topic: Stocks  (Read 1206749 times)

Offline Adam101

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Re: Stocks
« Reply #1900 on: June 08, 2016, 01:28:36 PM »

Offline ExGingi

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Re: Stocks
« Reply #1901 on: June 08, 2016, 01:45:24 PM »
I used to sell covered calls on a long term position I was in. One month there was a large upswing in the stock and my options were exercised.

I regularly sell covered calls and covered puts to generate some additional income.

While mostly those options expire worthless, I have had a few instances were they were exercised.

Here's my take on that: Whenever selling options, consider what value you put on the underlying security (there's a huge risk when there's no underlying security, such as VIX options). If your sell covered calls at slightly above what you consider full value, you cannot lose (as long as you bought the underlying below full value). Yes, it might swing to the upside above that, but there could be many unexpected drivers for that, and the same can go the other way. AFAIK no one ever lost money making a small profit  ;)

If you think that the underlying has huge potential upside, sell covered options only on a portion of your position, not too far out on the calendar, and maybe a little further out of the money.

The inverse goes for covered puts. If you believe a security is fairly priced, and you might jump in at a bargain price, you can sell a put (covered by cash or margin). First thing you did is collect a premium, if the strike price is hit, you get exercised at a price you believe is below fair value. If it's never hit, you walk away with the small income that the premium gave you (which is probably more than you would earn on the cash sitting in the account, and you actually earn that too!).

A recent example of how I sold puts, is that I sold June $10 EWJ puts. Since we are close to expiration and EWJ is way above, this is likely to expire and I pocket the entire premium. If EWJ drops below $10, I get exercised, but I am happy with that, as I believe EWJ at $10 is very good value.

Obviously this only works if you keep transaction costs low.
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Offline gozalim

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Re: Stocks
« Reply #1902 on: June 08, 2016, 01:49:54 PM »
I regularly sell covered calls and covered puts to generate some additional income.

While mostly those options expire worthless, I have had a few instances were they were exercised.

Here's my take on that: Whenever selling options, consider what value you put on the underlying security (there's a huge risk when there's no underlying security, such as VIX options). If your sell covered calls at slightly above what you consider full value, you cannot lose (as long as you bought the underlying below full value). Yes, it might swing to the upside above that, but there could be many unexpected drivers for that, and the same can go the other way. AFAIK no one ever lost money making a small profit  ;)

If you think that the underlying has huge potential upside, sell covered options only on a portion of your position, not too far out on the calendar, and maybe a little further out of the money.

The inverse goes for covered puts. If you believe a security is fairly priced, and you might jump in at a bargain price, you can sell a put (covered by cash or margin). First thing you did is collect a premium, if the strike price is hit, you get exercised at a price you believe is below fair value. If it's never hit, you walk away with the small income that the premium gave you (which is probably more than you would earn on the cash sitting in the account, and you actually earn that too!).

A recent example of how I sold puts, is that I sold June $10 EWJ puts. Since we are close to expiration and EWJ is way above, this is likely to expire and I pocket the entire premium. If EWJ drops below $10, I get exercised, but I am happy with that, as I believe EWJ at $10 is very good value.

Obviously this only works if you keep transaction costs low.
how much sense does it make for someone to be doing that as a primary strategy. Is it reasonable to expect to bring in ~%3 a quarter on rentals?

Offline hachover

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Re: Stocks
« Reply #1903 on: June 08, 2016, 02:45:01 PM »
Covered calls not only limits your upside, it makes it that much more difficult to sell your underlying position if the price goes down to your trigger point.
I'm an optimist; but only because life isn't going to give me any other good choices.

Offline gozalim

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Re: Stocks
« Reply #1904 on: June 08, 2016, 02:49:59 PM »
Covered calls not only limits your upside, it makes it that much more difficult to sell your underlying position if the price goes down to your trigger point.
good point. you need to be able to buy out the option?

Offline Adam101

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Re: Stocks
« Reply #1905 on: June 08, 2016, 04:32:58 PM »
I did offer to open a whatsapp group for options traders. Offer still stands.

Offline hachover

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Re: Stocks
« Reply #1906 on: June 08, 2016, 05:13:58 PM »
good point. you need to be able to buy out the option?

Just an extra step, shouldn't cost much to close it out when the stock is depressed.
I'm an optimist; but only because life isn't going to give me any other good choices.

Offline ExGingi

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Re: Stocks
« Reply #1907 on: June 08, 2016, 11:28:47 PM »
I did offer to open a whatsapp group for options traders. Offer still stands.

I would say that anyone writing covered options is probably more of an investor than a trader. There's nothing wrong with one or the other, it's just two totally different things.
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
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Offline Adam101

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Re: Stocks
« Reply #1908 on: June 08, 2016, 11:56:27 PM »
I would say that anyone writing covered options is probably more of an investor than a trader. There's nothing wrong with one or the other, it's just two totally different things.
I trade stocks. Invest with options. How's that?

Offline ilherman

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Re: Stocks
« Reply #1909 on: June 09, 2016, 12:03:52 AM »
Lol. We got a group. Don't we guys ?
So to be clear, you guys bought in when it was a dollar?
You can say what you think when you think what you say.

Offline Adam101

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Re: Stocks
« Reply #1910 on: June 09, 2016, 12:08:29 AM »
So to be clear, you guys bought in when it was a dollar?
BSPM? nah. Saw out at about 2.20 i think. We scaled the he** out of it though many times.

Offline ilherman

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Re: Stocks
« Reply #1911 on: June 09, 2016, 12:09:44 AM »
BSPM? nah. Saw out at about 2.20 i think. We scaled the he** out of it though many times.
Aha. So don't make it sound like you did..
You guys have a fun in a guessing group which is great.
You can say what you think when you think what you say.

Offline Adam101

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Re: Stocks
« Reply #1912 on: June 09, 2016, 12:13:02 AM »
Aha. So don't make it sound like you did..
You guys have a fun in a guessing group which is great.
Never made it sound like I did. At all. Never even mentioned an entry. And there is little guessing if any at all. Mostly on cheshbon. Besides our incredible success rate, we are still learning.
If having fun is success, then yes, we have fun.

Offline ExGingi

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Re: Stocks
« Reply #1913 on: June 09, 2016, 12:27:52 AM »
I trade stocks. Invest with options. How's that?

The only way to invest with options (in my dictionary) is by being in the primary business of writing options, so you're investing in your business (essentially an insurance business - there's a reason the price one pays or gets for an option is called a premium).

If you have any other way, I would be glad to be educated.
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
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Offline ExGingi

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Re: Stocks
« Reply #1914 on: June 09, 2016, 12:29:54 AM »
Mostly on cheshbon. Besides our incredible success rate, we are still learning.

Could you elaborate/explain what you mean with that?
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
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Offline Adam101

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Re: Stocks
« Reply #1915 on: June 09, 2016, 12:30:23 AM »
Could you elaborate/explain what you mean with that?
Pm

Offline ilherman

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Re: Stocks
« Reply #1916 on: June 09, 2016, 12:47:36 AM »
Never made it sound like I did. At all. Never even mentioned an entry. And there is little guessing if any at all. Mostly on cheshbon. Besides our incredible success rate, we are still learning.
If having fun is success, then yes, we have fun.
No worries. It just sounded so when you said that you are too busy with it..
You can say what you think when you think what you say.

Offline Emkay

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Re: Stocks
« Reply #1917 on: June 09, 2016, 05:17:24 AM »


And there is little guessing if any at all. Mostly on cheshbon.
Said every investor ever.......until they lost their pants.

Offline springles

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Re: Stocks
« Reply #1918 on: June 09, 2016, 08:40:51 AM »
Said every investor ever.......until they lost their pants.
agreed.  If you cant admit that its just guessing then you are setting yourself up for failure.  There might be some reasoning behind your guess but still a guess.

Offline Centro

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Re: Stocks
« Reply #1919 on: June 09, 2016, 09:14:27 AM »


agreed.  If you cant admit that its just guessing then you are setting yourself up for failure.  There might be some reasoning behind your guess but still a guess.
You can't say it's "just" guessing, but I agree It's some sort of gambling.