Author Topic: Stocks  (Read 1396008 times)

Offline savvydigz

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Re: Stocks
« Reply #7640 on: July 16, 2023, 09:27:15 PM »
ROFL

Come September TDA becomes Schwab.
I wasn't aware that they are scrapping the whole site. which is a real shame.
It has so many valuable features. ( though I don't use it anymore, do all my work on trading view, which is great.
Schwab has many glitches, for one it currently shows up in my app that my purchsae price of a stock was 11.40 while it was 10.90 ( the stock has yet to reach 11.40 in it's lifetime...) called cs they were clueless as to why it's happening.

Offline ari3

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Re: Stocks
« Reply #7641 on: July 16, 2023, 10:12:05 PM »
I wasn't aware that they are scrapping the whole site. which is a real shame.
It has so many valuable features. ( though I don't use it anymore, do all my work on trading view, which is great.
Schwab has many glitches, for one it currently shows up in my app that my purchsae price of a stock was 11.40 while it was 10.90 ( the stock has yet to reach 11.40 in it's lifetime...) called cs they were clueless as to why it's happening.
I have accounts at both Schwab and TD Ameritrade for many years. TD's website is much better, Schwab doesn't compare. IMHO TD is the best website out there (at least from the ones I've used) and it is a shame to lose it.

Offline ExGingi

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Re: Stocks
« Reply #7642 on: July 16, 2023, 10:55:11 PM »
I have accounts at both Schwab and TD Ameritrade for many years. TD's website is much better, Schwab doesn't compare. IMHO TD is the best website out there (at least from the ones I've used) and it is a shame to lose it.

I would guess/hope that Schwab takes the good things from TDA. I am sure they will maintain the Think or Swim trading platform.
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Offline sguitarist18

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Re: Stocks
« Reply #7643 on: July 18, 2023, 12:16:36 PM »
Anyone have any thoughts on BBBYQ?

Offline KidOOO

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Re: Stocks
« Reply #7644 on: July 18, 2023, 04:10:27 PM »
I have accounts at both Schwab and TD Ameritrade for many years. TD's website is much better, Schwab doesn't compare. IMHO TD is the best website out there (at least from the ones I've used) and it is a shame to lose it.

For active traders the TOS platform is really good, so I would bet they are at least keeping that part unchanged

Offline aygart

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Re: Stocks
« Reply #7645 on: July 18, 2023, 04:22:12 PM »
Anyone have any thoughts on BBBYQ?
The only thing certain is that the stock goes to zero.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline sguitarist18

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Re: Stocks
« Reply #7646 on: July 18, 2023, 04:36:02 PM »
The only thing certain is that the stock goes to zero.

Is that certain? It was down to .08/share, now it's up to .38...what are people buying it for at this point if it's guaranteed to go to 0?

Offline KidOOO

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Re: Stocks
« Reply #7647 on: July 18, 2023, 04:45:40 PM »
Is that certain? It was down to .08/share, now it's up to .38...what are people buying it for at this point if it's guaranteed to go to 0?

There's a whole OTC market for stock of companies that are practicality worthless. that doesn't stop people from trading them and bidding them up or down

Offline ExGingi

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Re: Stocks
« Reply #7648 on: July 18, 2023, 06:38:19 PM »
Anyone buying these types of ETFs?

Was mostly insurance products until now.

https://archive.ph/kIj3O
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Offline KidOOO

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Re: Stocks
« Reply #7649 on: July 18, 2023, 06:47:17 PM »
Anyone buying these types of ETFs?

Was mostly insurance products until now.

https://archive.ph/kIj3O

Always wondered how those insurance products work.

There obviously a high expense ratio and lower returns in a bull market. But what happens in a bear market? Who takes the loss?

Another thing to consider is that upside annual return cap vs CD's treasuries which are pretty high right now and are guaranteed returns, vs this can end up being 0%
« Last Edit: July 18, 2023, 08:58:57 PM by KidOOO »

Offline ExGingi

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Re: Stocks
« Reply #7650 on: July 18, 2023, 06:53:22 PM »
Always wondered how those insurance products work.

There obviously a high expense ratio, and lower returns in a bull market. but what happens in a bear market, who takes the loss?

The idea is actually quite simple. They don't invest in the actual stocks or index, they rather keep their funds invested in fixed-income products and buy (and constantly roll) options. With treasuries actually paying a decent yield, and relatively low volatility in the market, it is easier to structure attractively (when income is low or volatility rises, the caps need to be lowered).
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
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Offline ExGingi

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Re: Stocks
« Reply #7651 on: July 18, 2023, 06:55:04 PM »
Another thing to consider is that upside annaula return cap vs CD's treasuries which are pretty high right now and are guaranteed returns, vs this can end up being 0%

It's just another asset class that might have a place in someone's diversified portfolio.

FIAs (Fixed Index Annuities) are actually considered complex to understand, due to various features and moving parts. I wonder how this works in an ETF. Maybe not so much of an issue since it's considered a registered product across the board (FIAs are considered fixed products and don't require a security license in order to sell by various states, captive agent insurance companies often only allow them to be sold under the same platform as registered products, requiring securities licenses).
« Last Edit: July 18, 2023, 06:59:36 PM by ExGingi »
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
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Offline ExGingi

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Re: Stocks
« Reply #7652 on: July 18, 2023, 07:17:43 PM »
It's just another asset class that might have a place in someone's diversified portfolio.

FIAs (Fixed Index Annuities) are actually considered complex to understand, due to various features and moving parts. I wonder how this works in an ETF. Maybe not so much of an issue since it's considered a registered product across the board (FIAs are considered fixed products and don't require a security license in order to sell by various states, captive agent insurance companies often only allow them to be sold under the same platform as registered products, requiring securities licenses).

You can learn more at: https://www.innovatoretfs.com/education/

After briefly looking at some points there I actually think these types of strategies do fit better in Annuities than in an ETF (daily liquidity? seriously?)
« Last Edit: July 18, 2023, 07:21:08 PM by ExGingi »
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
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Offline yos9694

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Re: Stocks
« Reply #7653 on: July 19, 2023, 03:25:59 PM »
Let's not talk about the insurance company indexed investment options yet because that can get complicated really fast.

The ETF looks silly. First, why is it better than buying your own bull spread? The cap is 15% (after fees) cumulatively after 2 years... not exciting at all. And worst of all, the return you get depends on when you buy the ETF- the start and end date are fixed, so if the S&P went up 5% between 7/18/23 and when you bought, your personal cap is ~9%, and you have 5% downside exposure.

Offline KidOOO

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Re: Stocks
« Reply #7654 on: July 19, 2023, 04:19:02 PM »
Let's not talk about the insurance company indexed investment options yet because that can get complicated really fast.

The ETF looks silly. First, why is it better than buying your own bull spread? The cap is 15% (after fees) cumulatively after 2 years... not exciting at all. And worst of all, the return you get depends on when you buy the ETF- the start and end date are fixed, so if the S&P went up 5% between 7/18/23 and when you bought, your personal cap is ~9%, and you have 5% downside exposure.

If it's really 15% for 2 years, then after fees it's about 7% yearly, compared to getting almost 5% on a savings account, that extra 2% comes at the cost of possibly getting 0%

Offline KidOOO

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Re: Stocks
« Reply #7655 on: July 19, 2023, 10:36:16 PM »
Anyone buying these types of ETFs?

Was mostly insurance products until now.

https://archive.ph/kIj3O

Matt Levine Today

https://archive.is/OUERs

Buffer fund
A well-known bit of derivatives magic — a great, simple party trick that derivatives structurers can use to impress their friends — is that if you give me $100 today, I can invest $91 of it in two-year Treasury notes paying 4.75% interest, and in two years I will have $100.[1] And I can invest the other $9 in two-year at-the-money[2] call options on the S&P 500 stock index, options that gain value if the S&P goes up over those two years. Those options cost, let’s say, 13% of the price of the S&P today,[3] so spending $9 on options will get me an option on about $70 worth of the index. And so I can offer you the following trade:

You give me $100 today.
In two years, I give you back (1) $100, no matter what, plus (2) 70% of the return on the S&P 500 index, if it’s up.
If stocks go up, you get the gains (well, 70% of them). If stocks go down, you don’t get the losses. What a great trade!

And because I can do this efficiently in size, and because I thought of it and you didn’t, and because I advertised it to you with a cool brochure, I can charge you like 1% of your money for putting this trade together. It is a very good trade, honestly. If you are a sophisticated investor you can quibble with it,[4] but at a simple intuitive level it is just nice. “You get [much of] the upside of stocks, but no downside” is a clean and satisfying pitch. The shape of the payoff graph is pleasing.

Bloomberg’s Vildana Hajric and Emily Graffeo report:

The pioneer of the world’s first “buffer ETFs” — exchange-traded funds that are supposed to limit losses during market selloffs — has launched a new product which it says offers investors complete downside protection.

Investors in the $7.5 trillion ETF universe can now put money behind the Innovator Equity Defined Protection ETF, which began trading under the ticker TJUL on Tuesday. The offering comes from Innovator Capital Management, which launched the first so-called buffer ETFs, also sometimes referred to as defined-outcome funds, in 2018.

Buffer funds, as the name suggests, offer buffered exposure to stocks by limiting investors’ downside risk while also capping upside potential. …

Yet, Innovator says that its TJUL fund — which will track S&P 500 returns up to a capped percentage over a two-year period — will be the first of its kind to protect against 100% of stock losses. TJUL’s cap on potential gains is estimated at about 15% after fees.

Specifically, the fund will invest at least 80% of its net assets in options on the $423 billion SPDR S&P 500 ETF Trust (ticker SPY), according to the fund’s prospectus. TJUL can purchase and sell a combination of call and put options in an effort to cushion against market volatility.

The outcomes set by the fund may only be realized by investors who continuously hold shares of TJUL from the first day of the “outcome period” — July 18 — to the end of the two-year period, which is June 30, 2025, reads the prospectus.

They give you 100% of the gains up to the cap, rather than 70% of uncapped gains, but same basic idea.[5]

There is a reason that this product is the first of its kind: If interest rates are zero, I can’t invest $91 in Treasuries to get back $100, so I don’t have $9 to spend on options to get S&P 500 upside. (I have to put, like, $99 in Treasuries, and the only way to get you any meaningful upside is by giving you some downside risk too.) But as interest rates have gone up, products like this look better, and so people are offering them.

Of course as interest rates have gone up, products like this are in some sense less attractive: Putting up $100 and getting back $100 in two years is worse if I missed out on 4.75% interest than it would be if interest rates were zero.[6] But that’s not the point! The point is that a trade like “I will give you some stock upside and take 75% of the downside between down 5% and down 20% blah blah blah” is annoying and complicated, while “I will give you the upside of stocks and you can’t lose any money” is nice and simple and intuitively attractive. “Buffer fund” is complicated, “stock fund but you can’t lose money” has an obvious appeal.

Offline CountValentine

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Re: Stocks
« Reply #7656 on: August 03, 2023, 05:30:21 PM »
bought in at $90/share after hours yesterday. Planning to sell most if/when it reaches $101/share today. I’m hoping that your prediction is right and short term it dips below 90 - if it does I'd likely go in for a plunge like CV. (I’m in it to learn more than anything right now)
I was waiting for a long-term entry point. Yesterday's panic over the earnings report was the right time. Thanks for the heads up as I wasn't even watching. Busy with all the I-bond purchasing.  :)
Bought more at 99-100.



Hope you were able to move these before yesterday.
Not selling as these are long term investments. I guess my kids will enjoy the profits.  :)


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Offline ExGingi

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Re: Stocks
« Reply #7657 on: August 03, 2023, 08:28:25 PM »
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

Offline avadah

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Re: Stocks
« Reply #7658 on: August 08, 2023, 06:26:38 PM »
I've had the td ameritrade app and got transferred to schwab. the schwab app is horrible. is there anything similar to the ameritrade app?

Offline ExGingi

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Re: Stocks
« Reply #7659 on: August 08, 2023, 08:09:04 PM »
I've had the td ameritrade app and got transferred to schwab. the schwab app is horrible. is there anything similar to the ameritrade app?

I never had TDA app. But IINM Schwab will be keeping the Think or Swim trading platform, so I'm guessing that app should be available.
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
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