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Author Topic: Israel elections  (Read 20414 times)

Online Ergel

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Re: Israel elections
« Reply #90 on: January 24, 2013, 11:51:36 AM »
And another $300 million down the drain
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Offline yuneeq

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Israel elections
« Reply #91 on: January 24, 2013, 11:54:45 AM »
In my mind you can be Orthodox without being Charedi.

Charedim for the past couple hundred years have always been called orthodox. I would call them more accurately, Traditional Orthodox. Came around some rabbis, and successfully sparked a break off of Traditional orthodoxy, something now known as Modern Orthodox.

I'm not coming to bash modox, as modox are obviously religious. But Modox ain't orthodox and orthodox ain't modox. So when saying you're orthodox, you are charedi, as there is no other option.
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Online Ergel

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Re: Israel elections
« Reply #92 on: January 24, 2013, 11:55:58 AM »
Because traditionally 95% of the Orthodox were in learning, right?
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Offline yuneeq

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Re: Re: Israel elections
« Reply #93 on: January 24, 2013, 12:00:45 PM »
And another $300 million down the drain

Meh. That's a drop in the bucket compared to what the Charedim steal every year.
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Offline yuneeq

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Re: Re: Israel elections
« Reply #94 on: January 24, 2013, 12:03:38 PM »
Because traditionally 95% of the Orthodox were in learning, right?

How does working contradict being Orthodox? And let's not listen to a rant about how some "charedi" extreme extremists assur going to work.
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Online Ergel

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Re: Israel elections
« Reply #95 on: January 24, 2013, 12:05:26 PM »
You misunderstood what I said. Traditionally orthodoxy did not include everyone being in full time learning. So I'm not sure the current chareidi society is necessarily a kiyum in traditional orthodoxy
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Offline yuneeq

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Re: Re: Israel elections
« Reply #96 on: January 24, 2013, 12:17:00 PM »
You misunderstood what I said. Traditionally orthodoxy did not include everyone being in full time learning. So I'm not sure the current chareidi society is necessarily a kiyum in traditional orthodoxy

We never changed our ikkar Hashkafos drastically for hundreds of years. The fact that there are more people (not everyone as you believe) learning full time, simply is an outcome of the extra wealth that has been created in the past 60 years. Back in the shtetl, one couldn't afford to learn a couple years after marriage, nor even before marriage. Only the top, elite students would be supported by the community because nothing else was affordable.


« Last Edit: January 24, 2013, 12:24:13 PM by yuneeq »
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Offline Dan

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Re: Israel elections
« Reply #97 on: January 24, 2013, 12:18:18 PM »
And another $300 million down the drain
Better than the billions we spent in the US for the exact same outcome.
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Re: Re: Israel elections
« Reply #98 on: January 24, 2013, 09:05:29 PM »
We never changed our ikkar Hashkafos drastically for hundreds of years. The fact that there are more people (not everyone as you believe) learning full time, simply is an outcome of the extra wealth that has been created in the past 60 years. Back in the shtetl, one couldn't afford to learn a couple years after marriage, nor even before marriage. Only the top, elite students would be supported by the community because nothing else was affordable.

Women being the primary breadearners is a new phenomenon.
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Offline yuneeq

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Re: Re: Re: Israel elections
« Reply #99 on: January 25, 2013, 01:04:18 AM »
Women being the primary breadearners is a new phenomenon.

Yet again the answer is that our Hashkafos never changed. The world changed drastically in regards to women's rights, and the opportunity for a woman to make money has never been brighter. I can imagine that 200 years ago a similar amount of women would go out to work if given the opportunity.

Even without that, the women being the sole bread winner is only a temporary situation, that in 95% of the yeshiva world, lasts only a couple years.

TLDR; Society changed. HT platinumguy ;)
« Last Edit: January 25, 2013, 02:32:38 AM by yuneeq »
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Re: Re: Re: Israel elections
« Reply #100 on: January 25, 2013, 02:21:59 AM »
Yet again the answer is that our Hashkafos never changed. The world changed drastically in regards to women's rights, and the opportunity for a woman to make money has never been brighter. I can imagine that 200 years ago a similar amount of women would go out to work if given the opportunity.

Even without that, the women being the sole bread winner is only a temporary situation, that in 95% of the yeshiva world, lasts only a couple years.
Society changed
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Offline Achas Veachas

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Re: Israel elections
« Reply #101 on: January 25, 2013, 08:02:43 AM »
I'm pretty sure that if women went to work 100 years ago the Rabbonim would have been all out against (Kol Kevudah Bas Melech Pnimah). Ein Hachi Nami the times have changed but that DID also bring about changes in Hashkafos. As much as some people like to think that way, no one is immune to change.
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Offline yuneeq

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Re: Israel elections
« Reply #102 on: January 25, 2013, 08:13:02 AM »
I'm pretty sure that if women went to work 100 years ago the Rabbonim would have been all out against (Kol Kevudah Bas Melech Pnimah). Ein Hachi Nami the times have changed but that DID also bring about changes in Hashkafos. As much as some people like to think that way, no one is immune to change.

As long as there are no tznius issues involved, I can't see rabbis from 100 years ago going to war against women working.
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Offline Achas Veachas

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Re: Israel elections
« Reply #103 on: January 25, 2013, 08:56:31 AM »
As long as there are no tznius issues involved, I can't see rabbis from 100 years ago going to war against women working.
Shows how much we've changed that we can't even imagine it being different once. Not too long ago, just leaving the house was considered a Tznius issue. There is a Tshuvah from R' Moshe regarding if a woman can have a Drivers license. IINM He's Matir but very B'Dochak and only for a Tzorech Gadol.
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Online Ergel

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Re: Israel elections
« Reply #104 on: January 25, 2013, 09:32:08 AM »
Many poskim think that any work environment which includes men is a beach of tznius
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