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Author Topic: Dead Sea, Israel, Master Thread  (Read 163057 times)

Offline Deal Guy

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Re: HOTEL IN THE DEAD SEA
« Reply #40 on: May 05, 2010, 09:59:09 PM »
WHY ARE U SCREAMING BY USING CAPs!!!

 I know you have read at least 1 time what William has posted on FT, that its 1000% OK for any *W Hotel to sell ALL of its Standard rooms to a wholesaler even for the full year. If it does this then they are well within their Rights according to *W/SPG. that means yes they wont have any rooms to offer for free nights or C&P.

 If U dont like this policy theres a very Simple solution dont accumulate *W pts or stay at any *W Hotel

 William looked into this  in depth when The Plaza was doing the exact samething and posted what I wrote above that they werent doing anything against the T&Cs of their contract = nothing he or anyone can do

 At times when a Hotel does this you can use more pts and get a Deluxe Room, but no Hotel needs to offer these either.

 What I dont understand is why if you know a Hotel is playing do U still want to stay there as most likey they will play games with everything as well. Now I read on numerous posts how people want to Sell their SPG pts or to buy them, or how someone is willing to pay part of the stay if they can get credit for the stay. Well,IMO if you guys can do things that are against the T&Cs of SPG then why cant the Hotels ???  You cant have it both ways

 I hope people start acting their age rather then their shoe size and this pretains to anyone who is complaining about any *W hotel while they do things that arent Kosher themselves

How dare you come here and accuse me of doing things that aren't kosher? How dare you say that I deal with buying or selling points?! For the record, I never sold or bought "1" spg point other from spg.com directly (3 years ago), and paid them the full 3.5 cents!

You are the one that proudly writes that when you travel you don't look like a Jew, but those of us that do dress somewhat Jewish, are probably making a chillul Hashem all the time. That's the wrong attitude! You can dress like a Jew and behave. You always write that people are doing things wrong, and make up wrongful accusations for no reason, just because you are mad at the world, and your shoe size being many leap years older than most viewers here. You can't make up false accusations at people, just because you had a bad day!!  I'm sure there are others out there that you insulted that will agree with me.

As for your arguments, you don't make any sense. Even if you find people that do things against the t&c's, what gives established properties the right to do so as well. Even if a great whopping "10%" of spg account holders may do so, the overall majority just earn points and want to use them the kosher way. The hotels and the spg chain are big established companies, and they must play by the rules. Besides, normal hotels play by the rules, and it's just some properties in Israel that think they are above the law.

  The Le Meridian Eilat is different than what you wrote about FT. They did not sell all their standard rooms to a wholesaler. They do have standard rooms, and if you call the hotel directly without mentioning Starwoods name, they will sell you a standard room in a second. Also you can go onto fattal.co.il, which is the hotel chain that owns these and other properties in Israel, and you will find standard rooms available amongst all other room types. That is no wholesaler,that's the hotel themselves!!  How will you explain that when I spoke to a fattal reservation agent, and she offering me a standard room in Eilat, I then asked her why I can't have it for spg points, that she was stumped. She gave me a couple of lame excuses about miminum length of stay, and after I showed her that there is no rooms for points even for 2 weeks, she put me on hold. After speaking to her superviser she came back to me, and told me that the reason there is no availability is because, "WE DON'T TAKE STARWOOD POINTS IN JULY AND AUGUST. WHAT DO YOU WANT, WE NEED TO MAKE MONEY, THIS IS JULY AND AUGUST". I responded by telling her that while I understand that it's July and August, and it's a busy season, she needs to understand that it happens to be July and August in THE ENTIRE WORLD, and no other starwood properties in other countries play this game, and if you are a partner in February, you need to be a partner in July!

I will add that high levels in spg corporate are currently aware of this, and have passed this on to a very high level in Starwood's management.
« Last Edit: May 06, 2010, 02:55:07 AM by Dan »

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Re: HOTEL IN THE DEAD SEA
« Reply #41 on: May 06, 2010, 02:31:28 PM »
How dare you come here and accuse me of doing things that aren't kosher? How dare you say that I deal with buying or selling points?! For the record, I never sold or bought "1" spg point other from spg.com directly (3 years ago), and paid them the full 3.5 cents!

You are the one that proudly writes that when you travel you don't look like a Jew, but those of us that do dress somewhat Jewish, are probably making a chillul Hashem all the time. That's the wrong attitude! You can dress like a Jew and behave. You always write that people are doing things wrong, and make up wrongful accusations for no reason, just because you are mad at the world, and your shoe size being many leap years older than most viewers here. You can't make up false accusations at people, just because you had a bad day!!  I'm sure there are others out there that you insulted that will agree with me.

As for your arguments, you don't make any sense. Even if you find people that do things against the t&c's, what gives established properties the right to do so as well. Even if a great whopping "10%" of spg account holders may do so, the overall majority just earn points and want to use them the kosher way. The hotels and the spg chain are big established companies, and they must play by the rules. Besides, normal hotels play by the rules, and it's just some properties in Israel that think they are above the law.

  The Le Meridian Eilat is different than what you wrote about FT. They did not sell all their standard rooms to a wholesaler. They do have standard rooms, and if you call the hotel directly without mentioning Starwoods name, they will sell you a standard room in a second. Also you can go onto fattal.co.il, which is the hotel chain that owns these and other properties in Israel, and you will find standard rooms available amongst all other room types. That is no wholesaler,that's the hotel themselves!!  How will you explain that when I spoke to a fattal reservation agent, and she offering me a standard room in Eilat, I then asked her why I can't have it for spg points, that she was stumped. She gave me a couple of lame excuses about miminum length of stay, and after I showed her that there is no rooms for points even for 2 weeks, she put me on hold. After speaking to her superviser she came back to me, and told me that the reason there is no availability is because, "WE DON'T TAKE STARWOOD POINTS IN JULY AND AUGUST. WHAT DO YOU WANT, WE NEED TO MAKE MONEY, THIS IS JULY AND AUGUST". I responded by telling her that while I understand that it's July and August, and it's a busy season, she needs to understand that it happens to be July and August in THE ENTIRE WORLD, and no other starwood properties in other countries play this game, and if you are a partner in February, you need to be a partner in July!

I will add that high levels in spg corporate are currently aware of this, and have passed this on to a very high level in Starwood's management.


 1- I didnt say that YOU bought or sold although I do recall that you did at least 1 time try to sell a room you had reserved at The Tiberias Plaza for $$$.

 2- As I already said and YOU already knew but may have forgotten, William on FT already said a Hotel is 1000% wiothin its Rights and not braking any T&C of SPG to sell its entire inventory of Standard rooms for the FULL yr to a wholesaler = thiusly not having a single room available for Pts or C&P for the FULL yr.

If you dont like this and it was made known back in '09 dont participate with the SPG program, I dont beleive anyone is forcing you to use the Amex SPG CC or actually pay for a room/s at any *W Hotel.Its your choice and as longas any *W Hotel isnt braking the Contract you are stuck with that.

seems U dont like it but dont want to leave *W thats YOUR PROBLEM, BTW did U try and see if the Crowne Plaza was available for the same period of time using PC pts?

 If LeM in Eliat is as U say then it seems they are Braking their Contract and inform William or other higher ups and Im sure theyw ill look into it, Although I wouldnt be surprised if they simply end up selling all thier Standard rooms to a wholesaler to gte around it. There are numerous watys for any *W Hotel to get around it and within their Rights to do so.

 you arent then only person complaining and thusly why I said "you guys.." and not "you or moefl" you for whatever reason still Love to take whatever I post as Personal thats your decission but it seems now not only do you want *W to abide by what YOU deem to be fair but wish to take whatever I post in a way I ddint write it.

 Finally I just got off my BRU-JFK flight this morn before leaving I was online and noticed Dan had Deleted a post by you he said due to it being a Personl attck. Fortunately or unfortunately I never read what you priginally posted it was Deleted before I was able to.

But to follow in a classic Seinfield episode, NO CARS for YOU. So please do not PM me as you did the other week, if Dan had to Delete what you wrote Im really not interested in helping YOU save any $$

 You feel to realize that what might appear to be Unfair and Against the Rules for aHotel to do, just might not be the Truth. eg selling all of a Hotels Standard rooms toa wholesaler for the entire year is within their rights

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Re: HOTEL IN THE DEAD SEA
« Reply #42 on: May 06, 2010, 02:41:16 PM »
NO CARS for YOU.
Lol.

My opinion on this is that yes, Starwood hotels in Israel have been gaming the system for years.  You just need to game it back at them.
Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.

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Re: HOTEL IN THE DEAD SEA
« Reply #43 on: May 06, 2010, 03:30:04 PM »
1- I didnt say that YOU bought or sold although I do recall that you did at least 1 time try to sell a room you had reserved at The Tiberias Plaza for $$$.

 2- As I already said and YOU already knew but may have forgotten, William on FT already said a Hotel is 1000% wiothin its Rights and not braking any T&C of SPG to sell its entire inventory of Standard rooms for the FULL yr to a wholesaler = thiusly not having a single room available for Pts or C&P for the FULL yr.

If you dont like this and it was made known back in '09 dont participate with the SPG program, I dont beleive anyone is forcing you to use the Amex SPG CC or actually pay for a room/s at any *W Hotel.Its your choice and as longas any *W Hotel isnt braking the Contract you are stuck with that.

seems U dont like it but dont want to leave *W thats YOUR PROBLEM, BTW did U try and see if the Crowne Plaza was available for the same period of time using PC pts?

 If LeM in Eliat is as U say then it seems they are Braking their Contract and inform William or other higher ups and Im sure theyw ill look into it, Although I wouldnt be surprised if they simply end up selling all thier Standard rooms to a wholesaler to gte around it. There are numerous watys for any *W Hotel to get around it and within their Rights to do so.

 you arent then only person complaining and thusly why I said "you guys.." and not "you or moefl" you for whatever reason still Love to take whatever I post as Personal thats your decission but it seems now not only do you want *W to abide by what YOU deem to be fair but wish to take whatever I post in a way I ddint write it.

 Finally I just got off my BRU-JFK flight this morn before leaving I was online and noticed Dan had Deleted a post by you he said due to it being a Personl attck. Fortunately or unfortunately I never read what you priginally posted it was Deleted before I was able to.

But to follow in a classic Seinfield episode, NO CARS for YOU. So please do not PM me as you did the other week, if Dan had to Delete what you wrote Im really not interested in helping YOU save any $$

 You feel to realize that what might appear to be Unfair and Against the Rules for aHotel to do, just might not be the Truth. eg selling all of a Hotels Standard rooms toa wholesaler for the entire year is within their rights

You fail to realize my point, that in this case they have NOT sold out to a retailer, and therefore it's not similar to the case of William on FT. You can't compare apples to oranges!
  As with regard to CARS, it's not like you wanted to help anyone as you posted on April 21:

  "People I mean what I say be it in a post,PM or email

 If I say I wont book something for You for whatever reason,I mean it please dont PM or email me about it. Once I make that determination thats it

 also Im heading West till next Tues so it will be very difficult for me to book or quote anyting till Im back in NY, then Ill be Overseas 5/2-5/6"


 ( As for my deleted post, don't feel bad that you didn't see it, since it's the same message that you read)

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Re: HOTEL IN THE DEAD SEA
« Reply #44 on: May 06, 2010, 03:31:35 PM »
steve2 while reading your post i was wondering why you were being so civil as i assumed you had read the post.....until i got the part where it was deleted

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Re: HOTEL IN THE DEAD SEA
« Reply #45 on: May 06, 2010, 03:36:20 PM »
Lol.

My opinion on this is that yes, Starwood hotels in Israel have been gaming the system for years.  You just need to game it back at them.

 Thats what William more or less said, but since we were most likely Gaming Them before they started Gaming Us, why do we get ticked off when they do it to Us yet we do it to Them. Id still rather it be we game them and they dont game us, but Fair is Fair and as long as they are 100% within the Rights (even if I dont like it) then I take my Hat off to them, while others feel its best to scream Unfair

 as for moefl I remember very clearly back in mid '09 he had up a thread trying to Sell his room at The Plaza in Tiberias, why is that OK its was and still is against SPG T&Cs, why is it ok for him or anyone else to do whatever is against the Rules yet if a Hotel does something Look Out Baby

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Re: HOTEL IN THE DEAD SEA
« Reply #46 on: May 06, 2010, 03:40:17 PM »
find the post

Offline steve2

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Re: HOTEL IN THE DEAD SEA
« Reply #47 on: May 06, 2010, 03:49:42 PM »
You fail to realize my point, that in this case they have NOT sold out to a retailer, and therefore it's not similar to the case of William on FT. You can't compare apples to oranges!
  As with regard to CARS, it's not like you wanted to help anyone as you posted on April 21:

  "People I mean what I say be it in a post,PM or email

 If I say I wont book something for You for whatever reason,I mean it please dont PM or email me about it. Once I make that determination thats it

 also Im heading West till next Tues so it will be very difficult for me to book or quote anyting till Im back in NY, then Ill be Overseas 5/2-5/6"


 ( As for my deleted post, don't feel bad that you didn't see it, since it's the same message that you read)

 what the hay??? that post about the Cars was really meant for YOU after all you must have PMed well over 1/2 dz times I told you once I say something I mean it , so I posted that very simply for people to know if I say something I mean it. Ive booked countless cars for people and after all is said and done I made all of $0 in total. Heck SuperFlyer couldnt believe it when I told it to him yesterday that if I could help someone save a few $$ why not, I dont need the money so its my pleasure being able to help someone with no strings attached

I even PMed Dan on FT (wasnt able to on DD at the time) the name and email address for the room mgr in Venice for the Westin so that maybe he could score a nice Upgrade, he didnt ask me for that info and I didnt get anything for it nor did I expect anything, just felt if I can help someone out why not EVEN DAN. BTW he reserved a car another $0 to be made on his res It seems if anyone has a Problem its You. Ive met my share of whiners but Man do U take the cake

 As I said it seems if what you wrote is true that the LeM in Eilat might be braking its contract but that doesnt seem to be the case with The LeM at The Dead Sea. Bout all we can do is report what we feel is when a Hotel is doing something wrong and *W Corp will look into it, Willaim had that done with The Plaza and it turned out The Plaza was 100% doing things by the book. It stunk but it was within the T&Cs. so let SPG checkout both of these and report back whats what.It could be Eliat is braking the T&Cs and maybe they will simply redo how they are doing things so that theyw ill be within the T&Cs but the outcome will be the same for all of us NO ROOMS for US

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Re: HOTEL IN THE DEAD SEA
« Reply #48 on: May 06, 2010, 03:52:56 PM »
what the hay??? that post about the Cars was really meant for YOU after all you must have PMed well over 1/2 dz times I told you once I say something I mean it , so I posted that very simply for people to know if I say something I mean it. Ive booked countless cars for people and after all is said and done I made all of $0 in total. Heck SuperFlyer couldnt believe it when I told it to him yesterday that if I could help someone save a few $$ why not, I dont need the money so its my pleasure being able to help someone with no strings attached

I even PMed Dan on FT (wasnt able to on DD at the time) the name and email address for the room mgr in Venice for the Westin so that maybe he could score a nice Upgrade, he didnt ask me for that info and I didnt get anything for it nor did I expect anything, just felt if I can help someone out why not EVEN DAN. BTW he reserved a car another $0 to be made on his res It seems if anyone has a Problem its You. Ive met my share of whiners but Man do U take the cake

 As I said it seems if what you wrote is true that the LeM in Eilat might be braking its contract but that doesnt seem to be the case with The LeM at The Dead Sea. Bout all we can do is report what we feel is when a Hotel is doing something wrong and *W Corp will look into it, Willaim had that done with The Plaza and it turned out The Plaza was 100% doing things by the book. It stunk but it was within the T&Cs. so let SPG checkout both of these and report back whats what.It could be Eliat is braking the T&Cs and maybe they will simply redo how they are doing things so that theyw ill be within the T&Cs but the outcome will be the same for all of us NO ROOMS for US

Eilat AND the Dead sea are both playing the same game for July and August

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Re: HOTEL IN THE DEAD SEA
« Reply #49 on: May 06, 2010, 03:53:28 PM »
find the post

 ask him Im 100% positive that he wont deny having made it

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Re: HOTEL IN THE DEAD SEA
« Reply #50 on: May 06, 2010, 03:55:04 PM »
what about rooms in may and june? could anyone help me score one?

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Re: HOTEL IN THE DEAD SEA
« Reply #51 on: May 06, 2010, 03:55:32 PM »
Eilat AND the Dead sea are both playing the same game for July and August

 The dead Sea is selling Standard rooms if you call them? people have posted they saw standard rooms avaialble on other sites which can be true as the wholesalers could have made them available to those sites. What did U find with the Crowne Plaza?

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Re: HOTEL IN THE DEAD SEA
« Reply #52 on: May 06, 2010, 03:59:43 PM »
Thats what William more or less said, but since we were most likely Gaming Them before they started Gaming Us, why do we get ticked off when they do it to Us yet we do it to Them. Id still rather it be we game them and they dont game us, but Fair is Fair and as long as they are 100% within the Rights (even if I dont like it) then I take my Hat off to them, while others feel its best to scream Unfair

 as for moefl I remember very clearly back in mid '09 he had up a thread trying to Sell his room at The Plaza in Tiberias, why is that OK its was and still is against SPG T&Cs, why is it ok for him or anyone else to do whatever is against the Rules yet if a Hotel does something Look Out Baby

How can you think that MOST PEOPLE IN THE WORLD are gaming them. I would like to think that most people Jews and Non Jews alike, are just using the points the right way.
  And back to the main topic, even if you brought me undisputable proof, that 98% of SPG account holders are playing games, it is still ONLY THE 2 LE MERIDIAN PROPERTIES IN ISRAEL, that think they can outsmart everyone else, while the other 900 spg properties, don't do so, and they understand that July and August is just like February and March.

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Re: HOTEL IN THE DEAD SEA
« Reply #53 on: May 06, 2010, 04:00:54 PM »
what about rooms in may and june? could anyone help me score one?
Play with the dates, there are minimum stays in effect.
http://www.dansdeals.com/forums/index.php?topic=2157.msg19091#msg19091
Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.

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Re: HOTEL IN THE DEAD SEA
« Reply #54 on: May 06, 2010, 04:03:11 PM »
i tried it and it didnt work

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Re: HOTEL IN THE DEAD SEA
« Reply #55 on: May 06, 2010, 04:04:25 PM »
The dead Sea is selling Standard rooms if you call them? people have posted they saw standard rooms avaialble on other sites which can be true as the wholesalers could have made them available to those sites. What did U find with the Crowne Plaza?

Steve2, go to page 2 on this forum, and check out the 5th post on the page, where I compare a 15 day stay at the dead sea on spg.com versus the hotel's own fattal website. AM I WRONG?
  As for the CP, i don't have points, and as Dan once noted, he said the Le Meridian has better reviews.
« Last Edit: May 06, 2010, 04:10:01 PM by moefl »

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Re: HOTEL IN THE DEAD SEA
« Reply #56 on: May 06, 2010, 04:06:12 PM »
I tried May the other day. It could be that since it's only a couple of days or weeks away, they may be truly sold out.

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Re: HOTEL IN THE DEAD SEA
« Reply #57 on: May 06, 2010, 04:11:57 PM »
I tried May the other day. It could be that since it's only a couple of days or weeks away, they may be truly sold out.
May 18th and later is bookable online.
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Re: HOTEL IN THE DEAD SEA
« Reply #58 on: May 06, 2010, 04:13:40 PM »
May 18th and later is bookable online.

Dan, have you figured out how to get around July and August at either property?

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Re: HOTEL IN THE DEAD SEA
« Reply #59 on: May 06, 2010, 04:28:40 PM »
I know these are bookable at LMDS.
05/18-06/02
06/14-06/29
Have you tried calling SPG to see how many points they want for the exec room?
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