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Author Topic: Dead Sea, Israel, Master Thread  (Read 163048 times)

Offline steve2

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Re: HOTEL IN THE DEAD SEA
« Reply #60 on: May 06, 2010, 04:30:04 PM »
How can you think that MOST PEOPLE IN THE WORLD are gaming them. I would like to think that most people Jews and Non Jews alike, are just using the points the right way.
  And back to the main topic, even if you brought me undisputable proof, that 98% of SPG account holders are playing games, it is still ONLY THE 2 LE MERIDIAN PROPERTIES IN ISRAEL, that think they can outsmart everyone else, while the other 900 spg properties, don't do so, and they understand that July and August is just like February and March.

 I dont think most people are gaming SPG, at least not those on DD or FT or SD or FW. the vast majority of people wouldnt think to sell their Pts or try to get someone to stay while they get the stay credit etc etc. Most people probably play by the rules as they read them. how many people do you think would fly LAX-HNL-SFO-SYD-MEL-and then immediately MEL-SYD-SFO-HNL-LAX very few and they probably never heard of FT eitehr. Do you really think theres tons of people Mattress hopping out there? I dont and Ive been doing it for over 20 yrs

 Even William posted he never saw a Hotel that was so agressive as The J Plaza was, with how it played with its Inventory in all the yrs he has been with SPG. So since Fattal was partners with Boymelgreen I guess they simply decided to do the same with their other hotels.I get it all the time be it SPG,Marriott or Hilton sorry Mr Steve we are sold-out for the nights you will be staying with us so unfortunately no Upgrade is available. Then I simply go onto a computer and print out whats available for the nights Im staying and they give me the Hummer Hummer like Ralph on the Honeymooners. although the last 3 nights in Belgium spent with 3 different Chains all on Free Stays produced some very nice Suites w/o me even asking or saying 1 word.

 You are just dealing with SPG its not only them but with them all Each has its own T&Cs thats why people get ticked when they dont get afree breakfast at a Westin that doesnt have a Lounge, since at the last Westin they said Oh your a Plat bkfst is on Us. Thast fine but its NOT a SPG benefit so then they get MAD when all the others dont offer it. The Marriott in Ghent gave me a Suite its not a Plat benefit with Marriott so i cant complain when I dont get it at teh next Marriott I stay at, I was perfectly happy getting it on Mon night and was fully aware that it was done by the kindness of THAT hotel only.

 Now the Main thing is to know if a Hotel is actually braking the T&Cs or not, and not how can they get away with this, it seems unfair.thats exactly how I felt with the JP till William explained it all, and I told him under those coditions I stiill dont like it but I do take my hat off to them for playing it very well from their side of things even thou it costs me. now if in fact these 2 LeMs are braking the T&CS then Im 1000% positive SPG will put an end to it, of cause it might mean both Hotels leaving *W from their side. But Im sure if a person yes even You can show *W where theres actual foulplay going on they will stop it. Again keep in mind nothing stops these Hotels from simply being in cohoots with a Wholesaler and giving that ws all their Standard Rooms for the Full yr and then that hotel wont have to allow even 1 free night

 So I will only assume if they are found to be braking the rules then either they will leave *W or will simply find a way within their T&Cs to still keep any free rooms off the mkt, it really isnt that hard to accomplish,Unfortunately
« Last Edit: May 06, 2010, 04:59:27 PM by steve2 »

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Re: HOTEL IN THE DEAD SEA
« Reply #61 on: May 06, 2010, 04:32:26 PM »
LAX-HNL-SFO-SYD-MEL. can you explain y you did that?

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Re: HOTEL IN THE DEAD SEA
« Reply #62 on: May 06, 2010, 04:35:12 PM »
Steve2, go to page 2 on this forum, and check out the 5th post on the page, where I compare a 15 day stay at the dead sea on spg.com versus the hotel's own fattal website. AM I WRONG?
  As for the CP, i don't have points, and as Dan once noted, he said the Le Meridian has better reviews.

 so 1 is better then the other, if its free who cares!

 Tues night I stayed at the Crowne Plaza in Brugge only I didnt have any PC pts, so I traded with someone

 I was told last yr that 25k PC = 7k SPG so maybe if its avaialble you can make a Trade with someone on here for their PC pts and you owe them SPG or something else what ever you agree to. Its always nice to do an even steven trade but at times you might have to offer alittle more so taht the other party comes out slightly ahead

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Re: HOTEL IN THE DEAD SEA
« Reply #63 on: May 06, 2010, 04:37:58 PM »
LAX-HNL-SFO-SYD-MEL. can you explain y you did that?

I didnt but last summer it was like $500 r/t and doing LAX-HNL-SFO added apx 10k in EQMs to the net total, most people on FT arent looking how to get something for nothing perse but rather How can I get top Status level for as little $$ out of pocket as possible. those who did those Flew out of Fri got to MEL on Sun and were back in LA late Sun night or early Mon morn and then went to work w/o taking any time off. Also it was DEQMs double status pts so that extra 10k really meant an extra 20k towards the 100k they needed to fly

Of cause we cant do it on those days

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Re: HOTEL IN THE DEAD SEA
« Reply #64 on: May 06, 2010, 04:39:46 PM »
$500 la to ozzie? thats crazy

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Re: HOTEL IN THE DEAD SEA
« Reply #65 on: May 06, 2010, 04:42:25 PM »
$500 la to ozzie? thats crazy

 we are getting OT but my last trip to LA was JFK-LAX-SFO-ONT a reg JFK-LAX is 4950 EQMs doing what I did I got 7k do taht a few times ayear and you save alot of $$$

 yea last yr when DL started up SYD service I got NY-SYD for $700 now its $1000

 now back to bashing Fattal

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Re: HOTEL IN THE DEAD SEA
« Reply #66 on: May 06, 2010, 04:44:42 PM »
I'm just going to repeat what I said on page 1 and leave it at that.

They are gaming the system, and we have to put a end to their practices, both in Yam Hamelach, and in Eilat!

They are gaming the system, but we've lost 8 Israeli SPG's since 2007...don't want to lose any more!
Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.

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Re: HOTEL IN THE DEAD SEA
« Reply #67 on: May 06, 2010, 04:47:28 PM »
dan im having trouble using your formula with eilat. do you know which dates are available?

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Re: HOTEL IN THE DEAD SEA
« Reply #68 on: May 06, 2010, 04:52:42 PM »
I know these are bookable at LMDS.
05/18-06/02
06/14-06/29
Have you tried calling SPG to see how many points they want for the exec room?
dan im having trouble using your formula with eilat. do you know which dates are available?
The dates I posted were for the L.M.D.S. not L.M.E.
Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.

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Re: HOTEL IN THE DEAD SEA
« Reply #69 on: May 06, 2010, 04:55:23 PM »
i know. the question is if you know a way to beat the system with eilat

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Re: HOTEL IN THE DEAD SEA
« Reply #70 on: May 06, 2010, 04:58:54 PM »
scratch that, i got one in june

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Re: HOTEL IN THE DEAD SEA
« Reply #71 on: May 06, 2010, 05:04:35 PM »
I'm just going to repeat what I said on page 1 and leave it at that.


 Very True , You can win the battle but yet Lose the war

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Re: HOTEL IN THE DEAD SEA
« Reply #72 on: May 06, 2010, 08:14:41 PM »
so 1 is better then the other, if its free who cares!

 Tues night I stayed at the Crowne Plaza in Brugge only I didnt have any PC pts, so I traded with someone

 I was told last yr that 25k PC = 7k SPG so maybe if its avaialble you can make a Trade with someone on here for their PC pts and you owe them SPG or something else what ever you agree to. Its always nice to do an even steven trade but at times you might have to offer alittle more so taht the other party comes out slightly ahead

So are you actually suggesting (as you have done many times here on DD) that I can do something that isn't all that kosher?? For someone that is always so outspoken about people breaking the rules, why do you constantly suggest bartering points between different programs? Is bartering so much better then selling?

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Re: HOTEL IN THE DEAD SEA
« Reply #73 on: May 06, 2010, 08:20:08 PM »


 Now the Main thing is to know if a Hotel is actually braking the T&Cs or not, and not how can they get away with this, it seems unfair.thats exactly how I felt with the JP till William explained it all, and I told him under those coditions I stiill dont like it but I do take my hat off to them for playing it very well from their side of things even thou it costs me. now if in fact these 2 LeMs are braking the T&CS then Im 1000% positive SPG will put an end to it, of cause it might mean both Hotels leaving *W from their side. But Im sure if a person yes even You can show *W where theres actual foulplay going on they will stop it. Again keep in mind nothing stops these Hotels from simply being in cohoots with a Wholesaler and giving that ws all their Standard Rooms for the Full yr and then that hotel wont have to allow even 1 free night

 So I will only assume if they are found to be braking the rules then either they will leave *W or will simply find a way within their T&Cs to still keep any free rooms off the mkt, it really isnt that hard to accomplish,Unfortunately

I just want to repeat, that spg corporate offices are aware of their games, and while they are quite limited in dealing with them since they are a franshise hotel, nevertheless they are working on getting something resolved.

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Re: HOTEL IN THE DEAD SEA
« Reply #74 on: May 06, 2010, 09:09:00 PM »
So are you actually suggesting (as you have done many times here on DD) that I can do something that isn't all that kosher?? For someone that is always so outspoken about people breaking the rules, why do you constantly suggest bartering points between different programs? Is bartering so much better then selling?


 1- with most Programs there is absolutly nothing wrong in Gifting someone a free stay or a free tkt, and in turn theres nothing wrong with them gifting you something. No different then you can gift me $9500 in cash say in BRU this morn and you are on the same flight with $9500 cash yourself. Once thru everything I can say hey moefl I dont really feel good about accepting such a gift from you and return it to You, had you kept it all and were stopped you would have been in trouble for bringing in $10k in cash or more

 I take it you disagree with the Halacha regarding an esrog on the 1st day of Succos where if I dont have 1 I need to use 1 that isnt mine but that doesnt work on the 1st day so I have to take it from a person as Gift with the Intent to Return It, it must be Mine,

so i used "trade" so its understood what must take place but its really 2 people Gifting each other something, no different then the Esrog

 so in terms that You will Understand I was Suggesting that You or anyone offer to Gift X to someone else and in turn they will Gift Y to you, which as far as I know isnt against any of the T&Cs of the various programs but I can be wrong

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Re: HOTEL IN THE DEAD SEA
« Reply #75 on: May 06, 2010, 09:19:17 PM »
I just want to repeat, that spg corporate offices are aware of their games, and while they are quite limited in dealing with them since they are a franshise hotel, nevertheless they are working on getting something resolved.

 why are they Limited?? If they are braking the T&Cs of their contract then they should be warned to clean up or be thrown out of *W which they probably want to happen anyway, the Hotels that is, could very well be they are locked into a contract and have no choice and cant simply walk away w/o having to pay alot of $$$$

 If on the other hand they arent braking any of the T&Cs theres not much *W can do. eg say Israeli Hotels is the corporation that owns these Hotels and that same corporation has a wholesale biz called Fattal. So in fact what is happening is IH is selling Fattal all its Standard rooms, then *W cant do anything since its 2 different companies even thou its the same owner unless the contract says this cant occur.

 I have no idea if Fattal is the actual owner of the Hotels or if its 1 company that owns this which in turn owns that, as is the case many times in biz.

 So whats unknown is why *W wont do anything is it due to the Corp game that is played as described above, or is it due to not wanting to lose the revenue that these Hotels are paying, or even a 3rd or 4th reason

 as David Copperfield says , Your eyes seems to play games with your mind = not everything you see and think is taking place is actually what you saw or took place

Id say if these 2 Hotels are current with their payments to *W then *W will look the other way, this wasnt the case with The Plaza and the other 4 which were way behind in making its payments and supposingly were playing wiith the #s so that they showed they owed less then what they actually did to *W
« Last Edit: May 06, 2010, 09:36:10 PM by steve2 »

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Re: HOTEL IN THE DEAD SEA
« Reply #76 on: May 06, 2010, 09:29:04 PM »
I'm with you Steve, I wouldn't be surprised if Fattal is doing this on purpose to get thrown out of SPG.

It's not unlike those who roam excessively off of the Sprint network in hope of getting terminated, and out of their contract for free.

The L.M.D.S. and L.M.E. are both under contract with SPG but Fattal probably wants them to get thrown out of their contract for free.  Most of Fattal properties are not under SPG, no reason for these to be left in the program.


Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.

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Re: HOTEL IN THE DEAD SEA
« Reply #77 on: May 06, 2010, 10:51:27 PM »
 In my opinion if all a person wants is to be able to stay for free in israel the only Hotel program they should be with is Prioirty Club = ICH Group = Holiday Inn/Intercontinental/Crowne Plaza

 They are the ONLY US chain that has Hotels throughout Israel.True they wont be on the level on what the SPG were but then again there  are 3 SPGs left and probably in the not so far future Only the Sheraton In TelAviv

If its 5* hotels U want then you must be willing to pay $$ for them, what was , was, and *W will most likely never be in Isreal what it once was. sort of like TWAas the big player in the TLV mkt once they went under AA didnt go in and CO became the Big Game in town. yet for those who had tons of TWA miles CO didnt help them since CO wasnt apart of OW. people cried Unfair and kicked and screamed and yelled at AA but AA still didnt go in. So either you flew AA to LHR and went with BA from there which was never easy finding award space or you switched to CO like most people did and used your AA miles whenever you could to wherever you could

So Unfortunately once again either a person can carry-on throwing tantrums like a baby or move on to another program which can for the while take care of their needs. Its up to each person to decide for themselves

 

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Re: HOTEL IN THE DEAD SEA
« Reply #78 on: May 06, 2010, 11:07:42 PM »
1- with most Programs there is absolutly nothing wrong in Gifting someone a free stay or a free tkt, and in turn theres nothing wrong with them gifting you something. No different then you can gift me $9500 in cash say in BRU this morn and you are on the same flight with $9500 cash yourself. Once thru everything I can say hey moefl I dont really feel good about accepting such a gift from you and return it to You, had you kept it all and were stopped you would have been in trouble for bringing in $10k in cash or more

 I take it you disagree with the Halacha regarding an esrog on the 1st day of Succos where if I dont have 1 I need to use 1 that isnt mine but that doesnt work on the 1st day so I have to take it from a person as Gift with the Intent to Return It, it must be Mine,

so i used "trade" so its understood what must take place but its really 2 people Gifting each other something, no different then the Esrog

 so in terms that You will Understand I was Suggesting that You or anyone offer to Gift X to someone else and in turn they will Gift Y to you, which as far as I know isnt against any of the T&Cs of the various programs but I can be wrong

I personally agree with the concept,so there is no reason to really need to explain anything. It's just you that was calling selling points not kosher earlier. I find it extemely ironic that on a few minutes ago you posted THIS:

""and if You wish to in turn give him a Gift Id say 75 picturres of George Washington sounds nice""

So once again, it would be nice if you stuck to your guns, in my opinion
 
 
 
 
« Last Edit: February 12, 2012, 01:46:06 AM by Dan »

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Re: HOTEL IN THE DEAD SEA
« Reply #79 on: May 06, 2010, 11:30:43 PM »
I personally agree with the concept,so there is no reason to really need to explain anything. It's just you that was calling selling points not kosher earlier. I find it extemely ironic that on a few minutes ago you posted THIS:

""and if You wish to in turn give him a Gift Id say 75 picturres of George Washington sounds nice""

So once again, it would be nice if you stuck to your guns, in my opinion
 
 
 
 


 anyone can offer any Gift to Dan, Dan asked for 1 type that doesnt mean I or You cant offer him something else and its up to him if he wishes to accept it or not

 Is Selling against the T&Cs of most if not all of the different Programs YES. will most of the programs really Care, no as long as the person isnt making a biz out of it. Thats why even AA lets people go who have sold w/o taking away all their Miles. But if they found that person to be constantly Selling then Yes they will Close that persons acct and cancel all of that persons miles out. No different then Hidden Citys or booking back to backs or the fuel dumping. Do it everyday and look out on the other hand if a person does it only once in a blue moon and is a frequent flyer or stayer then the company will look the other way.

 In my 30+ yrs of flying and hotel staying I cant remember a single time where I Sold or Bought Miles or Pts, which means most of the people on DD werent even alive when I was already playing the Game. Would I have if it made sense , Most likely but it Never was worth it to me,eg My BRU flight was 40k AA or $2200 if buying, the most Id get for 40k is say $600. Since unlike alot of people Im not in a biz where I can keep printing Miles or Hotel pts to the tune of Millions of them I value them for my own usage. Thats on top of having to actually fly UA for 100k EQMs

 My game is to spend as little as I can to achieve UA 1K , Plat with Marriott,SPG and Diamond with Hilton. NOTICE I left Hyatt out I dont stay at them, yes the FFNs are great but they just arent where I need to be, so Id rather get the Stay credit with the other chains. Since I can still get decent Hotels in Yeru for apx $100 a night I have no problems paying for them even thou they are non-chains = no nothing.

 If on the other hand all a person wants is something for Nothing very much like your attitude then they will keep running into problems
« Last Edit: February 12, 2012, 01:25:28 AM by Dan »