The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live

[whacked1]

Schools are not shrinking/closing?

Cmiiw, but half of Lakewood are children of Brooklyn families. - it is definitely not the other way around.

Brooklyn isnt moving out. The dynamics of neighborhoods/communities are changing. Areas such as the single digits (E. 7/8/9) are becoming more sfardi (nothing wrong with that). Reg ashkanz are definitely moving. Either 20s and 30s (for those that can afford) or to lakewood. Areas such as marine park are booming. Really depends on what "type" you consider yourself

[Dan]

Cmiiw, but half of Lakewood are children of Brooklyn families. - it is definitely not the other way around.

What does that prove?
There are more frum Jews today than there were a generation ago. Brooklyn can't hold everyone and people will gravitate to what they can afford.

[coralsnake]

What does that prove?
There are more frum Jews today than there were a generation ago. Brooklyn can't hold everyone and people will gravitate to what they can afford.

+1

I wouldnt say Brooklyn is moving out at all. Quite the contrary.

I'd say that Brooklynites are also moving elsewhere.

[ExGingi]

Your quote shows the difference in our definitions. I can assure you if you take a poll here most people will agree living in a small apartment in Brooklyn doesn't make you holier than having a house with a backyard in Cleveland. Even though you have less physical advantages in an apartment.

The discussion about materialism seems to have taken on a life of its own on this thread. After reading what was written, and re-reading what I wrote and the subsequent responses, I think that you might have simply read into my words things I definitely did not intend, and which I believe I didn't even say.

• I definitely do not think or believe that "living in a small apartment in Brooklyn (doesn't) make you holier than having a house with a backyard in Cleveland".
• The above being said, I do think that there are people who are driven by materialism to OOT living. This is not a blanket statement, and definitely not something that I previously said. All I said is that materialism (as defined in English) transcends any specific location.
• Reading from what you wrote, as well as others, it seems to me that most people do agree with the definition of materialism as I inferred. The "disagreement" is whether moving OOT for better housing conditions is considered materialism. I don't think I inferred such, please correct me if you see a quote of mine that could be construed to indicate that I think so. This is why I put "disagreement" in quotes, as I don't believe we disagree at all on this point.
• While I don't live in an apartment, I can name several גשמיות'דיקע advantages to living in an apartment. Nothing is absolute, everything has pros and cons (hence the title of this thread)

When you don't know someone and you criticize what they do in an online forum it does not come off as light-hearted and definitely not as a friend.

I will restate what I said before, I didn't intend to criticize anyone. Anyone that feels I had criticized them is welcome to PM me for clarification/personal apology. And while I don't know anyone living in CLE personally, there's a lot to know about a person with a public persona and lots of web postings. I made a sly comment in light heart, expecting that it would be taken with a light heart and good spirit. I seem to have touched a raw nerve somewhere, and I'm sorry about that.

[Shkop]

What does that prove?
There are more frum Jews today than there were a generation ago. Brooklyn can't hold everyone and people will gravitate to what they can afford.

Good point. Lakewood has a massive amount of Brooklyn transplants, but that does not mean its emptying out. BTW, Monsey and many other communities have plenty of Jews that hail from there as well.

I don't know about anyone else, but imho all of New York city and its environs, Long Island, much of New Jersey and Rockland County are what most Jews refer to as "In Town". 

Having said that, would love to hear of some cities that best offer the IT attributes combined with the OOT attributes.

[Dan]

Good point. Lakewood has a massive amount of Brooklyn transplants, but that does not mean its emptying out. BTW, Monsey and many other communities have plenty of Jews that hail from there as well.

I don't know about anyone else, but imho all of New York city and its environs, Long Island, much of New Jersey and Rockland County are what most Jews refer to as "In Town". 

Having said that, would love to hear of some cities that best offer the IT attributes combined with the OOT attributes.

I hate the terms IT and OOT.

What attributes of NYC are you looking for exactly? If it were up to Smisek, merging the best would mean finding a high crime, noisy place that has bad traffic and no parking along with not many schools and restaurants to choose from.

[Shkop]

OOT: Pros- cheaper housing, less people, less choices (which makes people less judgmental).

IT: Pros- more people, more family, more jobs, more choices.

This comment. Which is what made me think, can't there be some kind of middle ground?

[Shkop]

I hate the terms IT and OOT.

What attributes of NYC are you looking for exactly? If it were up to Smisek, merging the best would mean finding a high crime, noisy place that has bad traffic and no parking along with not many schools and restaurants to choose from.

That would be combining minuses. I know that a double negative forms a positive though....

[aygart]

After reading a couple of pages on this thread, the pluses and minuses of OOT and IT start to become super clear.

Cleveland and Brooklyn are the prototype OOT and IT communities on DD.

Which community/communities most closely combine the pluses of both OOT & IT?

(I know... nothing truly does, which is why I state MOST closely combine....)



 

Monsey (is it still that way?) and North Jersey are somewhere in btween.

Even though

imho all of New York city and its environs, Long Island, much of New Jersey and Rockland County are what most Jews refer to as "In Town".   

[Shkop]

Monsey (is it still that way?) and North Jersey are somewhere in btween.

Even though

Perhaps, but housing is very expensive. Tilting it solidly right of center in the OOT -----IT spectrum

[aygart]

Perhaps, but houses are very expensive. Tilting it solidly right of center in the OOT -----IT spectrum

As was stated before, not all OOT has low housing prices. Certainly not LA, Toronto, and more. Personality wise they are in between. My father always says that when you need to fight for a parking spot daily (or more) it has an effect on your personality.

[ExGingi]

My father always says that when you need to fight for a parking spot daily (or more) it has an effect on your personality.

That might be true, but is it possible that it's the personality that leads one to fight for a parking spot. I know plenty of people that live in Brooklyn and would never fight over a parking spot.

That being said, seeing people waste valuable parking space by parking 25 feet from a fire hydrant or 5-10 feet away probably has had an affect on my personality, but that has been mitigated thanks to DW.

[David Smith]

That being said, seeing people waste valuable parking space by parking 25 feet from a fire hydrant or 5-10 feet away probably has had an affect on my personality, but that has been mitigated thanks to DW

Why, she parks like that? 

[Dan]

My father always says that when you need to fight for a parking spot daily (or more) it has an effect on your personality.

Absolutely.
Just having to deal with heavy traffic and alternate side puts a damper on your mood.
Getting home and not finding parking? Nisht fa' mir.

[EJB]

This thread is ridiculous. That being said, let's find an island somewhere that we can buy and move to. I'm in.

[Dr Moose]

This thread is ridiculous. That being said, let's find an island somewhere that we can buy and move to. I'm in.

I think there's already an island that's owned almost exclusively by Jews. It's called Manhattan.

[EJB]

I think there's already an island that's owned almost exclusively by Jews. It's called Manhattan.

I can't afford that island . Don't think anyone can

[ExGingi]

Why, she parks like that? 

On occasion she does, though she usually calls me to park the car for her.

[David Smith]

This thread is ridiculous. That being said, let's find an island somewhere that we can buy and move to. I'm in.

http://forums.dansdeals.com/index.php?topic=38452

[EJB]

I'm too materialistic to settle on Hawaii.