The Pros And Cons Of Where You Live

[avromie7]

So both your property tax and your insurance are a fortune (as a % of FMV) compared to mine. My RE tax is about 4x yours, and insurance is about half of yours. You know what houses 'round here go for, no need for me to post.

If there were houses like his available for the price he paid in your area you would have a solid argument, the fact that housing is cheaper where he lives is a pro not a con. Now let's compare based on square footage and see who pays more.

[Dan]

Now let's compare based on square footage and see who pays more.

+1. This makes more sense than FMV comparison from location to location.

[ADG]

Why Arkansas? Go to a PA suburb. You'll save 10k.

If I didnt need to commute to NYC I would pick a place that gets more sun. and less harsh of a winter.

[ADG]

+1. This makes more sense than FMV comparison from location to location.

Not to mention the inflated buble your FMV lives in. Note the pun...

[joey89]

Heh. That's where you pay the piper.

Cost of living in a city that’s below sea level (and gets hit every year by storms). Living 2 blocks from the levees doesn’t help (most insurers don’t even write policies in my area)

[ExGingi]

If there were houses like his available for the price he paid in your area you would have a solid argument, the fact that housing is cheaper where he lives is a pro not a con. Now let's compare based on square footage and see who pays more.

Why is square footage a more accurate comparison? Do I spend 100% of my time under my roof? How about the fact that I can walk to shul/grocery/work?

It's a futile argument. It's a known fact that NYC (especially older homes) real estate taxes are a relative bargain. There are plenty of other costs we pay to compensate (but OTOH you can't beat the terms I get on my garbage collection).

[Dan]

Why is square footage a more accurate comparison? Do I spend 100% of my time under my roof? How about the fact that I can walk to shul/grocery/work?

It's a futile argument. It's a known fact that NYC (especially older homes) real estate taxes are a relative bargain. There are plenty of other costs we pay to compensate (but OTOH you can't beat the terms I get on my garbage collection).

Why is paying a low percentage a bargain compared to a lower actual amount out of your pocket for a comparable home? Cities with lower home values still need to provide services.

[ExGingi]

Why is paying a low percentage a bargain compared to a lower actual amount out of your pocket for a comparable home? Cities with lower home values still need to provide services.

Just because the discussion was about real estate taxes and affordability for retired people on social security or other fixed income. I have older (retired) neighbors who might have been in dire situation if their real estate taxes were anywhere near the % of FMV that others are paying around the country (or the state). I recently spoke to someone about financial options for his parents who live in Monsey, and the real estate taxes were a huge part of the equation.

Also, full disclosure (it's public record), I probably paid less for my house than @joey89 paid for his (and his father might have paid a similar price), though there's probably close to a 2 decade time difference between the purchases.

[Dan]

Just because the discussion was about real estate taxes and affordability for retired people on social security or other fixed income. I have older (retired) neighbors who might have been in dire situation if their real estate taxes were anywhere near the % of FMV that others are paying around the country (or the state). I recently spoke to someone about financial options for his parents who live in Monsey, and the real estate taxes were a huge part of the equation.

This proves @avromie7's point. You should look at the actual outlay required, not the percentage.

[ExGingi]

This proves @avromie7's point. You should look at the actual outlay required, not the percentage.

See my edit. I'm not purchasing today in the market (title thread is "where you live" not "where you would move to" ). But while FMV went up by about 8x my purchase price, RE taxes are up less than 5x the tax when I bought (IINM).

[joey89]

If there were houses like his available for the price he paid in your area you would have a solid argument, the fact that housing is cheaper where he lives is a pro not a con. Now let's compare based on square footage and see who pays more.

+1, my monthly mortgage payment (including tax and insurance) on a 2,000 sqft home (7,000 sq ft lot) is under $1,350 which is less then my siblings are paying for rent on 1 bedrooms in Brooklyn

[joey89]

Also, full disclosure (it's public record), I probably paid less for my house than @joey89 paid for his (and his father might have paid a similar price), though there's probably close to a 2 decade time difference between the purchases.

True. I don’t ever expect to see this appreciation where I live

[ExGingi]

+1, my monthly mortgage payment (including tax and insurance) on a 2,000 sqft home (7,000 sq ft lot) is under $1,350 which is less then my siblings are paying for rent on 1 bedrooms in Brooklyn

Let's just say that there's no argument here. Choosing to live in Brooklyn is rarely due to some financial advantage (except if a good job keeps one here).

[ExGingi]

True. I don’t ever expect to see this appreciation where I live

The point I was making wasn't so much about the actual appreciation, it was more about the divergence between the FMV appreciation and the increase in the tax.

[joey89]

The point I was making wasn't so much about the actual appreciation, it was more about the divergence between the FMV appreciation and the increase in the tax.

Noted, however the conversation was premised on the question of how can people afford to retire when their property taxes are so high, to which you added that it is more manageable in Brooklyn than in the Monsey area. While being true, the question is still valid as most retirees are on a fixed income of which a big chunk is spent on property taxes, whether the “manageable” form in Brooklyn or worse upstate. (You can argue that the insane appreciation opens avenues to tap into the equity to pay said taxes).

I entered the conversation just to comment about the article that you posted.

[ExGingi]

While being true, the question is still valid as most retirees are on a fixed income of which a big chunk is spent on property taxes, whether the “manageable” form in Brooklyn or worse upstate. (You can argue that the insane appreciation opens avenues to tap into the equity to pay said taxes).

I don't know the details, but I believe there could be discounts available (or whatever they might call them) on the real estate taxes for people over 65 in NYC.

[thaber]

Another mehalech, in many states, such as CA and AZ, the property taxes are set at the time of sale and there is a cap on increases. In CA property taxes can only be raised 1% per year.
So, if you buy a house in CA 30 years ago you're all set
https://www.californiataxdata.com/pdf/Prop13.pdf

AZ - I think the values were set in 2011 and there is a minimal yearly increase regardless of sales. so even if you buy now you should do pretty well.

[ExGingi]

https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2019-06-25/new-york-s-urban-renewal-hurt-by-inequality-and-housing-costs?srnd=premium

[Moshe123]

Rocland includes airmount pomona ext. And taxes vary drastically.

Being that there are so many Yidden who dont send to public schools why dont they petition to change the taxes? sue the county? IDK.

Because our assemblypeople are an outspoken anti-semite and a self-hating Jew and they try to hurt us at every corner.

The state formula needs to be changed to cater to the unique needs of Rockland County, but they won't lift a finger.

Thank God, the people who they represent and one of them were utterly humiliated in the primaries this week.

Also, a few of the villages have ridiculous debt to pay off because they had and lost RLUIPA suits that cost them millions and they need to pay it off, and we end up paying, because we live there. They fought it (except Chestnut Ridge that got sechel) because they're vile anti-semites.

The rhetoric among some of them wouldn't embarrass the Nazis of the 1930s.

Here you have a sitting Republican Rockland County legislator, one day ago on Facebook.

[Moshe123]

And by the way, the Monsey area heimishe olam, is split into 3 different assembly districts, in a brazen gerrymander that we shouldn't have any influence in Albany. Brabenec, Jaffe, and Zebrowski.

If Ramapo would have had an assembly district, you would've had a heimishe representative.