Author Topic: NEST Thermostat  (Read 14175 times)

Offline yuneeq

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Re: Nest Learning Thermostat New Jersey Natural Gas Customer-$150(reg. $250)
« Reply #15 on: October 27, 2013, 08:13:57 AM »
Why is that?
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Offline churnbabychurn

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Offline yuneeq

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Re: NEST Thermostat
« Reply #17 on: October 27, 2013, 09:58:53 AM »
Not necessarily related, but there was a Rov in Brooklyn in the 50's who was trying to convince his Shul to stop using a microphone on Shabbos, but the board kept saying that "if Rabbi so-and-so says it's OK then it must be fine". The Rov being a Lubavitcher, suggested they go to The Lubavitcher Rebbe and see what he says. The Rebbe heard both sides out, then turned to the board members and said: Amongst the Rabbonim who are Matir to use a microphone on Shabbos there are 3 kinds. a) Rabbonim who are well versed in Hilchos Shabbos but are not very well informed on how microphones work. b)Rabbonim who know very well how microphones work but are sadly not well informed in Hilchos Shabbos. c)Rabbonim who can do well to educate themselves in both. The Rebbe then concluded "With all due humility, I have studied electrical engineering and I know a thing or 2 in Hilchos Shabbos, and I tell you that there is no way to be Matir the use of a microphone on Shabbos".

Source for that story? I don't agree one bit. Anyone who studied how a simple microphone works (I have), can clearly see why there is no issur of mavi'ir.

And you don't need to take my word for it: R Shlomo Zalman Aurbach, the leading posek in technological matters, said so himself. I saw his psak quoted at the end of Yabiya Omer 1:20 (I could be off by a siman).
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Offline Achas Veachas

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Re: NEST Thermostat
« Reply #18 on: October 27, 2013, 10:42:23 AM »
Not to put my head "Bein Haharim" but mav'ir is not the only issue and using electricity.
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Offline yuneeq

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Re: NEST Thermostat
« Reply #19 on: October 27, 2013, 01:30:33 PM »
Not to put my head "Bein Haharim" but mav'ir is not the only issue and using electricity.


And yet, R' Shlomo Zalman was still matir the use of a microphone. (A modern microphone can obviously have a different din). Yes, there is a chazon ish that held there is boneh by electricity, which everyone disagreed upon. But either way, the machlokes of a microphone is when it's already on from before shabbos, avoiding that issue.
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Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: NEST Thermostat
« Reply #20 on: October 27, 2013, 01:59:01 PM »

And yet, R' Shlomo Zalman was still matir the use of a microphone. (A modern microphone can obviously have a different din). Yes, there is a chazon ish that held there is boneh by electricity, which everyone disagreed upon. But either way, the machlokes of a microphone is when it's already on from before shabbos, avoiding that issue.
WTH you talking about. He was never matir a mic. Ever.

Offline yuneeq

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Re: NEST Thermostat
« Reply #21 on: October 27, 2013, 02:08:33 PM »
WTH you talking about. He was never matir a mic. Ever.

WTH. Read my source before saying WTH. :)
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Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: NEST Thermostat
« Reply #22 on: October 27, 2013, 02:12:18 PM »
WTH. Read my source before saying WTH. :)
While RSZ did hold that there is no chashash of deorisos he was never matir a microphone. He held that there is a chasshas of avsha milsa, uvdin dechol etc. There was a time possibly where ppl may have thought that he was "matir" but that is not true.

Both RS'Z and R Moshe were matir hearing aids.

Offline yuneeq

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Re: NEST Thermostat
« Reply #23 on: October 27, 2013, 02:12:57 PM »
While RSZ did hold that there is no chashash of deorisos he was never matir a microphone. He held that there is a chasshas of avsha milsa, uvdin dechol etc. There was a time possibly where ppl may have thought that he was "matir" but that is not true.

Both RS'Z and R Moshe were matir hearing aids.

A) Source?
B) The shailah of a microphone was always a derabonon shailah of mavi'ir. At least for him it was. And yet he said mutar.
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Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: NEST Thermostat
« Reply #24 on: October 27, 2013, 02:17:56 PM »
A) Source?
B) The shailah of a microphone was always a derabonon shailah of mavi'ir. At least for him it was. And yet he said mutar.
IIRC its actually in minchas shlome chelek alef.- He definitely did not ever permit a microphone. It is brought down in his name in multiple seforim that I cannot recall of hand.
R moshe is in igros.

ETA he may have been matir for cholim.  :-[
Pending further review
« Last Edit: October 27, 2013, 02:21:34 PM by churnbabychurn »

Offline yuneeq

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Re: NEST Thermostat
« Reply #25 on: October 27, 2013, 02:31:07 PM »
Here's yabiya omer 1:19:18
He doesn't mention anything about uvsha milta or other things, so bring a proof that he holds its a problem.
The tshuva was not regarding a choleh either, rather davening on shabbos with a microphone.

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Offline yuneeq

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Re: NEST Thermostat
« Reply #26 on: October 27, 2013, 02:34:13 PM »
Sorry, I forgot to add that in the end of this tshuva, Reb Shlomo Zalman agreed that it's mutar lemayseh (doesn't sound like either of them holds it's lekatchila).
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Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: NEST Thermostat
« Reply #27 on: October 27, 2013, 02:39:56 PM »
Iirc his opinion evolved....I'll look into it iyh

Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: NEST Thermostat
« Reply #28 on: October 27, 2013, 02:52:52 PM »
Sorry, I forgot to add that in the end of this tshuva, Reb Shlomo Zalman agreed that it's mutar lemayseh (doesn't sound like either of them holds it's lekatchila).
this teshva is talking about a hearing aid.
RSZ famously was matir them, his mother used one..
The discussion is about a microphone. Are we on the same page?

Offline yuneeq

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Re: NEST Thermostat
« Reply #29 on: October 27, 2013, 03:02:21 PM »
this teshva is talking about a hearing aid.
RSZ famously was matir them, his mother used one..
The discussion is about a microphone. Are we on the same page?

Actually it's the same tshuva as before (microphone), but in the last piece, he learns out the din to hearing aids too.

I did skip over to the middle to where I saw RSZ quoted, and I see now that when he quotes RSZ it isn't 100% clear that he will be matir a microphone. But it does seem that Chacham Ovadia was matir based on RSZ, and you haven't brought proof yet that RSZ assurs.
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