Guns Master Thread

[ShlockDoc]

read the federalist and anti federalist papers

Which one of those is the constitution?

[ShlockDoc]

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

Which part of that says everyone should own a gun?

[jj1000]

Which part of that says everyone should own a gun?

Who said it does? All I said is the constitution doesn't say if you have a 17 bullet capacity handgun or carry with one in the chamber and no safety you can still own a gun...

And what Chevron said is exactly my point, many people carry to be prepared. Just because you don't see yourself in a terrorist attack doesn't mean there is any reason not to be prepared for one, etc.

[JTZ]

And what Chevron said is exactly my point, many people carry to be prepared. Just because you don't see yourself in a terrorist attack doesn't mean there is any reason not to be prepared for one, etc.

You are going to stop a terrorist attack with 17 bullets? Didn't know it was that simple. You have a better chance of shooting yourself because you carry with the safety off. 

[chevron]

You are going to stop a terrorist attack with 17 bullets? Didn't know it was that simple. You have a better chance of shooting yourself because you carry with the safety off. 

People like you have been scoffing at me for years, the terminology for this is an "Adam katan"

I dont think one should carry round chambered safety off, the only way i'd do this is using a 1911 depressed hammer method, with enough training one should be able to draw, flip the safety and fire.. maybe look in to an extended safety or an ambi safety if your a lefty like myself.

However, making one valid point and overall laytzanus on a very serious topic does not mean if the naked emperor wears a hat, he becomes clothed... if you can in good faith mock terror attacks and prevention of it, your a clown.

All statistics show that people on the spot in the area at the time of any shooting are the best option to end the attacks... unless maybe some complex hostage or bomb situation I dunno.

Look up the stats but:
most mass shootings are already over by the time the police come
in israel, it is armed civilians that stop or prevent terror attacks and that is with even a large police and army presence in the street.

Lets say God forbid there is a terror attack with a few terrorists and some AK47's etc by he time someone calls 911, the police respond, locate the shooters and eliminate them? probably over 500 round  would have been dispensed by the terrorists

Now, a person on the spot would be in position to begin firing right away, if you got a good spot, took a good shot and knocked one guy out, chances are the rest of the rounds in your mag would be scattered unless you were very disciplined and accurate to double tap each terrorist in successive motion which isnt how things go usually people are so adrenaline fueled even with an 8 or 10 lb trigger pull youd probably waste your ammo in fear and nervousness and fear causes people to shoot

I think this is a concern regarding innocent bystanders but unless your wildly shooting your probably not going to hit people your not pointing at and any ways diverting terrorists fire is going to suck if you dont have good covet but help others flee etc

I lived in chevron, I know a thing or 2 about terror attacks and shootings etc it doesnt work like in movies

[JTZ]

OK did a quick Google search and didn't find one terrorist attack stopped in the US by someone carrying a concealed weapon that held 17 shots. 

Lets get serious here for a moment. Most of this thread sounds like a bunch of teenage boys drooling over some hot blond. They need to crawl before they learn to walk.

I am guessing the OP does not own a gun. Become familiar with what you want to buy before buying it. Then make damn sure you are trained properly before you carry.

[chevron]

Which one of those is the constitution?

The argument has been what the framers meant in the 2nd amendment, whether it was for civilian rights to keep and bear arms or the oft but incorrect argument that it was intended for a well regulated militia

In the Federalist papers and Anti Federalist papers there are discussions and debates regarding the federal governments powers and fear of an over encroaching government.

The 2nd was codified in the constitution to prevent government tyranny and abuse of powers that would inhibit on man's freedom.

The right to self defense against an attacker was not the intent of the 2nd, that is another God given right included with Life, Liberty and the pursuit of happiness

[chevron]

OK did a quick Google search and didn't find one terrorist attack stopped in the US by someone carrying a concealed weapon that held 17 shots. 

Lets get serious here for a moment. Most of this thread sounds like a bunch of teenage boys drooling over some hot blond. They need to crawl before they learn to walk.

I am guessing the OP does not own a gun. Become familiar with what you want to buy before buying it. Then make damn sure you are trained properly before you carry.

That is insulting and frankly out of line.. firstly this is the USA, if you want to carry 17 rounds why is it your business ? 2nd why do security guards in israel carry backup mags ?

3rd, terror attacks in the USA where guns are relevant have not been an issue BH but you fail to understand WHY people carry.. and you imply we are drooling over some hot blonde ?

Whatever makes him feel better.. I never carried a stacked mag and was content with 8 rounds of .45 but that doesnt mean I sm going to preach.

Maybe I should carry my Remington SW 29 .44 MAGNUM? just to be sure I really get the job done.. or I should just conceal my Saiga 12 in my pants with a 10 round mag of 12 gauge 9 ball scattershot ?

[jj1000]

OK did a quick Google search and didn't find one terrorist attack stopped in the US by someone carrying a concealed weapon that held 17 shots. 

Lets get serious here for a moment. Most of this thread sounds like a bunch of teenage boys drooling over some hot blond. They need to crawl before they learn to walk.

I am guessing the OP does not own a gun. Become familiar with what you want to buy before buying it. Then make damn sure you are trained properly before you carry.

So let's get down to the issue at hand, you think you know more about guns than everyone here and therefore your ridiculous assertions are correct and everyone else is incorrect.

Some reading for you:
http://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2013/03/why_does_anyone_need_a_high-capacity_magazine.html
http://www.offthegridnews.com/self-defense/this-is-why-your-stockpile-needs-high-capacity-magazines/
https://www.usconcealedcarry.com/magazine-capacity/

I have no problem with a person carrying 5, 10 or 15 bullets. I'm not claiming to be a gun expert. In my original post I said I have more control on a larger carry, like the PPQ with a double stack magazine. If you want to get into who knows more and who's a better shot the person who's PPQ I used, it is his every day carry and he is ex-military, a gold medalist in state wide shooting contests, as well as many other awards. So how about taking it easy let people do what they are comfortable with and stop acting so elitist because you think you know more than everyone.

[chevron]

because gun purists are elitists and are bashing rambo types they feel is wrong.. but I dont agree

[jj1000]

because gun purists are elitists and are bashing rambo types they feel is wrong.. but I dont agree

At least we are on the same page. So when's the next wine DO? I got a sick deal on these glasses I have to break in http://www.amazon.com/Riedel-5416-44-Vinum-Tasting/dp/B001UE7HYM

[JTZ]

You are missing the point. This isn't about bashing anyone. You need to learn about guns before you decide to buy one and you need a lot of training before you carry. You are not buying a car here. This idea if it makes you feel good then go for it is ...

Carrying a gun is a serious decision. Someone that buys a gun with a 17 shot mag and a 3" barrel tells me a lot about that person.

We all have opinions and I am expressing mine.

[jj1000]

You are missing the point. This isn't about bashing anyone. You need to learn about guns before you decide to buy one and you need a lot of training before you carry. You are not buying a car here. This idea if it makes you feel good then go for it is ...

Carrying a gun is a serious decision. Someone that buys a gun with a 17 shot mag and a 3" barrel tells me a lot about that person.

We all have opinions and I am expressing mine.

Ok, well my opinion is you sound elitist and entitled. And only your opinion matters even if other experts and statistics disagree with yours.

[JTZ]

There is a big discussion going on about safety or no safety when carrying between what you call elitist. If someone says that don't have the safety on when they carry I would ask why not. If there answer is because that is my choice that should tell you something about that person. If they link to articles instead of answering that again will tell you something about that person.

I know a ton of people that carry and don't know the first thing about guns. It is there right to carry but do you think they should? I say no and you seem to say it is none of my business.

[ShlockDoc]

To me, the purpose of carrying a CCW at its core is to reduce the risk of your environment.

 Therefore two things need to be evaluated. Your environment and you.  If you live is Chevron, the risk is different than Brooklyn.

If you are a LEO with significant training and practice, carrying with a round in the chamber may reduce the risk of your environment. If you have basic level training and do not practice regularly you are increasing the risk of your environment.  In fact if you don't have significant training and regular practice and you CCW,  you yourself may be increasing the risk of the environment irrespective of whether there's a round in the chamber.

[CS1]

We went to target shooting on chol hamoed and tried out some Glocks, Berettas and a couple revolvers.
A good beretta with accurate aim goes a long way. Large capacity sounds good -- as long as it's not at risk of being taken away during a situation.
Keeping the safety on at all times would seem like common sense, especially as the instructor was describing several scenarios to us.

[JTZ]

The big knock on a manual safety is that in the heat of a battle you might forget about it.

[Aaaron]

You assumed I meant that instead of asking me. The part I disagree with you is the part about the safety because I assumed everyone you know did not have hours of professional training. New school says you don't need to keep the safety on because in the heat of battle you might forget about it. I am old school and say 100% BS.

I apologize for misunderstanding, but in my opinion you're still incorrect.  There are two issues inherent with an external safety; it's an additional item that requires manipulation, and it's an external protrusion from the firearm.

Again, this is gleaned from immense amounts of training and consulting with people that are well-versed in actually having to use their firearms.

[Dr Moose]

The big knock on a manual safety is that in the heat of a battle you might forget about it.

If when practicing drawing from the holster and then disengaging the safety, it will just become muscle memory. No?

[jj1000]

To me, the purpose of carrying a CCW at its core is to reduce the risk of your environment.

 Therefore two things need to be evaluated. Your environment and you.  If you live is Chevron, the risk is different than Brooklyn.

If you are a LEO with significant training and practice, carrying with a round in the chamber may reduce the risk of your environment. If you have basic level training and do not practice regularly you are increasing the risk of your environment.  In fact if you don't have significant training and regular practice and you CCW,  you yourself may be increasing the risk of the environment irrespective of whether there's a round in the chamber.

I agree. And for someone online with knowledge of what the other persons training is or to assume that having a 17 bullet carry means something negative about the person is ignorant and elitist.