Poll

Do You Own A Gun

Of Course
31 (19.9%)
No
57 (36.5%)
I plan on getting one eventually
67 (42.9%)
I used to
1 (0.6%)

Total Members Voted: 156

Author Topic: Guns Master Thread  (Read 135887 times)

Offline Dan

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Re: Guns Master Thread
« Reply #700 on: October 02, 2017, 11:00:59 PM »
Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.

Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: Guns Master Thread
« Reply #701 on: October 02, 2017, 11:07:33 PM »
Best I found was 10-15 minutes the shooting lasted.
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Offline Dan

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Re: Guns Master Thread
« Reply #702 on: October 02, 2017, 11:09:22 PM »
Best I found was 10-15 minutes the shooting lasted.
I heard 15 earlier today.
Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.

Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: Guns Master Thread
« Reply #703 on: October 02, 2017, 11:11:45 PM »

Offline beeweegee

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Re: Guns Master Thread
« Reply #704 on: October 02, 2017, 11:16:27 PM »

It took the cops 72 minutes until they found him and broke into his room. Shooting was 10-15 min.

Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: Guns Master Thread
« Reply #705 on: October 02, 2017, 11:23:16 PM »
It took the cops 72 minutes until they found him and broke into his room. Shooting was 10-15 min.
That sure isn't the narrative they have been reporting.
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Offline beeweegee

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Re: Guns Master Thread
« Reply #706 on: October 02, 2017, 11:34:53 PM »
That sure isn't the narrative they have been reporting.
The 911 call was reportedly first made at 10:08 pm (local time), and police were reportedly heard blasting the door off of his hotel room at 11:20 pm. Do the math...

Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: Guns Master Thread
« Reply #707 on: October 02, 2017, 11:40:29 PM »
The 911 call was reportedly first made at 10:08 pm (local time), and police were reportedly heard blasting the door off of his hotel room at 11:20 pm. Do the math...
Not disagreeing just wondering why no one is asking why it took so long. So he stopped shooting for over a hour. This keeps getting more insane.
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Offline beeweegee

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Re: Guns Master Thread
« Reply #708 on: October 02, 2017, 11:48:46 PM »
Not disagreeing just wondering why no one is asking why it took so long. So he stopped shooting for over a hour. This keeps getting more insane.
Dunno, it's a good point. It seems that they got some bad intel about him being on the 29th floor, and about there being multiple shooters. There were cops in the hotel relatively soon after the shooting, and they were even on the right floor - they were waiting for SWAT. The question I have is what took SWAT so long...

Offline beeweegee

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Re: Guns Master Thread
« Reply #709 on: October 02, 2017, 11:56:23 PM »
Not disagreeing just wondering why no one is asking why it took so long. So he stopped shooting for over a hour. This keeps getting more insane.
http://www.newsweek.com/las-vegas-shooting-cops-took-more-hour-storm-gunmans-room-676198

Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: Guns Master Thread
« Reply #710 on: October 03, 2017, 12:02:57 AM »
http://www.newsweek.com/las-vegas-shooting-cops-took-more-hour-storm-gunmans-room-676198
Maybe he stop shooting because he was concerned about the police outside his door. This doesn't look good.
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Offline jj1000

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Re: Guns Master Thread
« Reply #711 on: October 03, 2017, 12:04:27 AM »
Maybe he was just downright crazy in the head and he isn't the genius tactician we are assuming him to be...
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Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: Guns Master Thread
« Reply #712 on: October 03, 2017, 12:05:37 AM »
Maybe he was just downright crazy in the head and he isn't the genius tactician we are assuming him to be...
I will bet the house he isn't a genius tactician.
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Offline jj1000

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Re: Guns Master Thread
« Reply #713 on: October 03, 2017, 12:26:39 AM »
I will bet the house he isn't a genius tactician.
Bh, these SOB's are morons too most of the time. Based on recent posts seems like it could have been way way worse, which is scary to think about.
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Offline whYME

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Re: Guns Master Thread
« Reply #714 on: October 03, 2017, 01:01:52 AM »
https://twitter.com/calebkeeter/status/914872808110510080
Let's see if he's still saying the same thing in a few weeks or months when he's able to think clearly and not going purely based on emotions.


I don't know if the guns he had were legal, but let's not assume he couldn't have killed just as many people even had he not had access to these guns.
Here's one hypothetical scenario: According to media reports he had a pilot's license and owned 2 planes. What if instead of the guns he had taken his plane and crash-landed in that same crowd? What do you think the body count would look like in that case?

according to at least one report they found ammonium nitrate in his trunk. What if he actually made bombs and used them in conjunction with a plane?

My point is a gun is just a tool. Right now it may be the easiest tool available, but someone hell-bent on killing as many people as possible will find another tool (which may be more or less effective depending on the individual's resources, resourcefulness and  capabilities)


Now a trivia question for bonus points: Up until the Orlando nightclub massacre, what was the deadliest shooting and what gun(s) were used?

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Re: Guns Master Thread
« Reply #715 on: October 03, 2017, 01:27:34 AM »
I also was just informed there is a way to make an AR-15 basically full auto legally. Was not aware of the new stuff they come up with.

Reddit commenter FWIW

“It definitely wasn't modified semi-automatic rifles.
Even with a trigger modification, the upper receiver isn't designed for that volume of rounds, and would have jammed. The barrels would have melted pretty quickly too with that rate of fire.
I've fired the M4 (AR military variant) on three round burst, and that thing jams all the time. And that's only three rounds. And it's designed for that!
Half an hour of sustained fire, mag after mag? Had to be fully automatic. Likely several fully automatics.
One other issue: how were the gunshots heard over the concert music from the Mandelay, 1500 feet away? I can't hear s** five feet from me at a concert.”

And another-
“From everything I've heard described (particularly the range, kill ratio, and volume of fire) this sounds like more than an ordinary military assault rifle firing full auto. Given the range and effective kill ratio, it sounds 30 caliber (e.g., .308) instead of merely .223, and given the hundreds of rounds fired by presumably one person in a relatively short period of time, that would seem to indicate a belt-fed instead of magazine fed. IOW, this all sounds like the kind of carnage of a belt fed, 30 caliber M60 machine gun.”
« Last Edit: October 03, 2017, 01:32:09 AM by yuneeq »
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Offline whYME

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Re: Guns Master Thread
« Reply #716 on: October 03, 2017, 01:31:55 AM »
If you are serious about fighting off a government HCM will be like throwing more toothpicks.
Sometimes I can't tell if you're really serious or just stoking the flames of controversy.

First of all, I agree with what @jj1000 said
They fought for a few days thanks to the few guns they did have.

This is a common argument that when it comes to going against the government guns or HCM won't help.

First of all if ever Jew had an AR with a HCM in Germany I can guarantee you it would have helped...

But how about telling that to the Taliban and Al-Qaeda they have been fighting the US government for over 15 years now and they are not winning any wars but not so shabby with not much more than some HCM... Also you'd have factions of the military I hope rebelling against the government etc, hcm give you the ability to fight back with them. I really don't mean to sound like this is a possibility or something we need to prepare for or anything like that (honestly @FBI this is just an internet argument), but to say that there isn't one good reason, this is your reason.

I seem to remember you saying you have friends (family members?) in the service. Ask any of them if it would've made no difference if the Taliban/Isis etc had no assault weapons or HCMs or whatever else the left wants to ban here. I'll be shocked if any of them say it makes no difference and it's just throwing more toothpicks.


Although the truth is, I'm not sure there's even a real argument here. When you say HCM you're talking about >20 round capacity. When the gun grabbers talk about HCM they're talking about >5-7 rounds.

Using the baseline of 20 rounds (I would say 30 rounds, but that's a side issue) I would agree there's probably no need for higher capacity. (for a rifle, not talking machine guns) In fact, AFAIK nobody serious uses them for life and death situations as they're far too unreliable/prone to jamming.
In fact, CMIIW, but if you make it through a whole 100 round drum without it jamming you'll be stuck with an overheated rifle.

But of course by the same reasoning for why they're unnecessary you can argue that banning them won't really help anything. How many of these shooters actually used HCMs (>20-30, not >5-7)  effectively?

Offline as2

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Re: Guns Master Thread
« Reply #717 on: October 03, 2017, 01:37:09 AM »
Reddit commenter FWIW

“It definitely wasn't modified semi-automatic rifles.
Even with a trigger modification, the upper receiver isn't designed for that volume of rounds, and would have jammed. The barrels would have melted pretty quickly too with that rate of fire.
I've fired the M4 (AR military variant) on three round burst, and that thing jams all the time. And that's only three rounds. And it's designed for that!
Half an hour of sustained fire, mag after mag? Had to be fully automatic. Likely several fully automatics.
One other issue: how were the gunshots heard over the concert music from the Mandelay, 1500 feet away? I can't hear s** five feet from me at a concert.”

And another-
“From everything I've heard described (particularly the range, kill ratio, and volume of fire) this sounds like more than an ordinary military assault rifle firing full auto. Given the range and effective kill ratio, it sounds 30 caliber (e.g., .308) instead of merely .223, and given the hundreds of rounds fired by presumably one person in a relatively short period of time, that would seem to indicate a belt-fed instead of magazine fed. IOW, this all sounds like the kind of carnage of a belt fed, 30 caliber M60 machine gun.”
You can easily buy ARs in kits, or separately. The lower is the part that is considered to be a firearm, and even here in IL you could probably get ahold of an upper without an FFL. Barrels can be switched out super easily as well. ARs are of the easiest to build and rebuild.
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Offline whYME

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Re: Guns Master Thread
« Reply #718 on: October 03, 2017, 01:43:11 AM »
Reddit commenter FWIW

“It definitely wasn't modified semi-automatic rifles.
Even with a trigger modification, the upper receiver isn't designed for that volume of rounds, and would have jammed. The barrels would have melted pretty quickly too with that rate of fire.
That's ignoring that he had almost 20 guns to switch between.

One other issue: how were the gunshots heard over the concert music from the Mandelay, 1500 feet away? I can't hear s** five feet from me at a concert.”
Honestly I'm very surprised at how loud the gunshots sounded at the concert.

that would seem to indicate a belt-fed instead of magazine fed. IOW, this all sounds like the kind of carnage of a belt fed, 30 caliber M60 machine gun.”
IDK, in the videos I saw I don't remember any sustained bursts that were too long for a 30 round magazine. (and remember he had I think 19 guns to switch between -although that may include some handguns as well, I don't know how many he actually used up there)

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Re: Guns Master Thread
« Reply #719 on: October 03, 2017, 01:47:55 AM »
That's ignoring that he had almost 20 guns to switch between.
Honestly I'm very surprised at how loud the gunshots sounded at the concert.
IDK, in the videos I saw I don't remember any sustained bursts that were too long for a 30 round magazine. (and remember he had I think 19 guns to switch between -although that may include some handguns as well, I don't know how many he actually used up there)

That’s not ignoring it. There were lots of long bursts that he couldn’t believe were possible with a kit. Even with multiple guns. From what I’ve remember  there may have been 40-50 shots without switching weapons.
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