Poll

Do You Own A Gun

Of Course
31 (19.9%)
No
57 (36.5%)
I plan on getting one eventually
67 (42.9%)
I used to
1 (0.6%)

Total Members Voted: 156

Author Topic: Guns Master Thread  (Read 135849 times)

Offline L'Chaim

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Re: Ban guns
« Reply #20 on: December 16, 2012, 06:06:06 PM »
I personally don't think that that guns should be banned, and people should be allowed to own guns to protect themselves and their families.

That being said, your point about criminals not handing in guns, and criminal access to guns on the black market, is not entirely relevant. Here in the UK, any criminal/gangster that wants to obtain a firearm, could do so if they wanted it bad enough. I, on the other hand wouldn't have a clue as to where to start looking for one. In the US, I would Google the closest gun shop, walk in with my drivers licence (in applicable states) and walk out 5 minutes later with whatever gun I fancied.

From my understanding, most of the major massacres that took place in recent history (Columbine, Virginia Tech etc.) were perpetrated by individuals with no criminal links/history. My guess is, that in a place like the UK, these individuals would not have been able to gain access to these weapons, thus preventing them from carrying out these atrocities.

My point is that, yes, criminals would still have access to guns, but we should be more afraid of your "average Joe" that goes crazy and takes an AK-47 to a building full of children.
And like you said that if it wouldn't be so easy to obtain any firearm then your average Joe - not the criminal in the black market - wouldn't have access to it. (the criminals in general don't do these kind of shooting, they have better things to occupy themselves with)
That's irrelevant to the discussion.

What is relevant is that outlawing guns would not make an iota of difference when it comes to these issues. 

OP's Utopian belief that it will is sheer refusal to face the facts. 
Facts are that in most countries that have a ban on guns, you don't hear stories of youngsters with no criminal record whatsoever that goes nuts and starts shooting at kids/crowds with a gun that he got in some stupid way. I'm not saying that people don't go crazy in other places, what I am saying is that it usually had a different outcome.

Offline ChAiM'l

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Re: Ban guns
« Reply #21 on: December 16, 2012, 06:08:54 PM »
And like you said that if it wouldn't be so easy to obtain any firearm then your average Joe - not the criminal in the black market - wouldn't have access to it. (the criminals in general don't do these kind of shooting, they have better things to occupy themselves with)

So you agree or disagree with me?

Offline HelpMe

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Re: Ban guns
« Reply #22 on: December 16, 2012, 07:02:49 PM »
Even assuming you're right, so what?
Assuming I am correct then next logical progression would be that fewer crimes would be committed with guns since less of them are available.
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Offline AJK

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Re: Ban guns
« Reply #23 on: December 16, 2012, 07:06:00 PM »
Assuming I am correct then next logical progression would be that fewer crimes would be committed with guns since less of them are available.

You seem to have developed a penchant for only quoting a portion of my posts.

For your reference:

I guess you must also agree that the war on/ban on drugs has been a wholesale success, eh?

I must be completely uninformed about the degree to which coke and meth are readily available to those people sufficiently inquisitive.

With all due respect, what country do you live in?


Use the above and answer your own post.
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Offline U-no-me!

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Re: Ban guns
« Reply #24 on: December 16, 2012, 07:07:49 PM »
You seem to have developed a penchant for only quoting a portion of my posts.


+100
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Offline HelpMe

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Re: Ban guns
« Reply #25 on: December 16, 2012, 07:12:00 PM »
You seem to have developed a penchant for only quoting a portion of my posts.
Let me answer your other two questions then.

The war drugs have made fewer drugs available to use.

I live in the US.
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Offline U-no-me!

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Re: Ban guns
« Reply #26 on: December 16, 2012, 07:17:21 PM »

The war drugs have made fewer drugs available to use.


Is that a fact?
I actually beleive it's similar to the  prohibition era where the rate went up.
And the war on drugs has handed over hundreds of millions of dollars to drug cartels and terroists like hezbollah
and Has filled our prisons which has ruined millions of families and is costing the taxpayers millions of dollars.
« Last Edit: December 16, 2012, 07:20:23 PM by U-no-me! »
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Offline AJK

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Re: Ban guns
« Reply #27 on: December 16, 2012, 07:19:38 PM »
Let me answer your other two questions then.

The war drugs have made fewer drugs available to use.

I live in the US.

OK so let me get this straight.

The ban on drugs has made fewer drugs available to use, but in no meaningful way prevents people seeking out those drugs from obtaining them.

And a ban on guns will make fewer guns available to use, but unlike the ban on drugs, the gov't will somehow implement a plan whereby the people seeking out those guns will be prevented from obtaining them.

La la land.
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Offline ChAiM'l

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Re: Re: Ban guns
« Reply #28 on: December 16, 2012, 07:22:38 PM »
OK so let me get this straight.

The ban on drugs has made fewer drugs available to use, but in no meaningful way prevents people seeking out those drugs from obtaining them.

And a ban on guns will make fewer guns available to use, but unlike the ban on drugs, the gov't will somehow implement a plan whereby the people seeking out those guns will be prevented from obtaining them.

La la land.

Did you miss my post?

Offline HelpMe

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Re: Ban guns
« Reply #29 on: December 16, 2012, 07:27:50 PM »
The ban on drugs has made fewer drugs available to use, but in no meaningful way prevents people seeking out those drugs from obtaining them.
Let’s look at teenagers. Do more use alcohol or drugs? Which one is easier to get?
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Offline AJK

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Re: Re: Ban guns
« Reply #30 on: December 16, 2012, 07:29:17 PM »
Did you miss my post?

I guess?  ???

Let’s look at teenagers. Do more use alcohol or drugs? Which one is easier to get?

No idea. You tell me.
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Offline HelpMe

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Re: Re: Ban guns
« Reply #31 on: December 16, 2012, 07:31:38 PM »
No idea. You tell me.
From what I see it is alcohol that is the major problem.
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Offline U-no-me!

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Re: Ban guns
« Reply #32 on: December 16, 2012, 07:31:44 PM »
Let’s look at teenagers. Do more use alcohol or drugs? Which one is easier to get?

Alcohol.
So what's your point?
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Offline AJK

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Re: Re: Ban guns
« Reply #33 on: December 16, 2012, 07:44:25 PM »
From what I see it is alcohol that is the major problem.

You keep on making me guess your point.

So here goes:

Assuming you're correct, and alcohol is a bigger problem than drugs, therefore:

Because alcohol is a bigger problem than drugs and is legal*, therefore, if we--like drugs--ban alcohol, it will become a smaller issue.

* Except it isn't legal for <21 year olds to drink...

Am I getting that, right?
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Offline HelpMe

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Re: Ban guns
« Reply #34 on: December 16, 2012, 07:55:03 PM »
Short answer, yes.

My point has been the same. When you make something harder to get it will not be used as much. If you ban guns then they will be harder to obtain and use. The problem is banning guns I believe is against the Constitution. How much of our 2nd amendment rights are we willing to give up?
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Offline AJK

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Re: Ban guns
« Reply #35 on: December 16, 2012, 07:59:10 PM »
Short answer, yes.

My point has been the same. When you make something harder to get it will not be used as much. If you ban guns then they will be harder to obtain and use. The problem is banning guns I believe is against the Constitution. How much of our 2nd amendment rights are we willing to give up?

I'm not sure I agree. I don't believe a material part of the population would begin snorting cocaine in the back bathroom of a diner simply because it's now legal. I'd venture to say that overwhelming majority of people don't do drugs because it's harmful, not because it's against the law.

However, even if drugs are used less because they're "harder to get" because they're illegal, my point is the a ban on guns won't accomplish what it sets out to, namely, stop school shootings. If people want to get a gun, they'll get a gun, just like a druggie who wants a fix will find a fix.
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Offline U-no-me!

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Re: Ban guns
« Reply #36 on: December 16, 2012, 08:02:07 PM »
Short answer, yes.

My point has been the same. When you make something harder to get it will not be used as much. If you ban guns then they will be harder to obtain and use. The problem is banning guns I believe is against the Constitution. How much of our 2nd amendment rights are we willing to give up?

The prohibition era disproves that point.
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Offline HelpMe

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Re: Ban guns
« Reply #37 on: December 16, 2012, 08:10:59 PM »
The prohibition era disproves that point.
Not the first two years and data points are hard to pin down from this era.
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Offline Dan

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Re: Ban guns
« Reply #38 on: December 16, 2012, 08:27:06 PM »
I think they should just ban automatic and semi automatic guns, let the gun nuts have hand guns,
these massacres are done and can only be done with automatic guns.
I agree that there's no reason not to ban semi-automatic weapons.
But there have been killings without them and to think that we'll be safe from these incidents in the future without them is foolish.
Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.

Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: Ban guns
« Reply #39 on: December 16, 2012, 08:35:09 PM »
I agree that there's no reason not to ban semi-automatic weapons.
But there have been killings without them and to think that we'll be safe from these incidents in the future without them is foolish.
Unless we are considering airport type of security, for every shopping mall and school (Israel?), the only viable solution seems to be less guns period.