Author Topic: The truth about children - Warning: Controversial  (Read 68537 times)

Offline MnM1130

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Re: The truth about children - Warning: Controversial
« Reply #100 on: January 04, 2013, 02:48:15 AM »
(sorry its long)
wow.. love this thread. to bad i was busy enjoying disney world with my almost 3 yr old son. But i have so much to say from a woman's point of view- who didnt get married VERY young (22) and came from a big family (11) that having a child- let alone children, is most def the hardest thing a human can ever do, AND are most def the least prepared about. And for a woman it starts long before the cute little furry thing pops out. I do feel that many many couples now (in my circles at least) had one child soon after marriage and than took a long break b4 the next because it was something they were so scarred about they couldnt comprehend doing it again (ever) so fast. It took me physically and mentally 2 years to even think ill even want to have more children. It was so bad to the point when i saw pregnant woman my heart went out to them, and i said im never doing that again. But i do feel that now my son is just about 3- im a mother. And a mothers job is to have children and give up herself for them. And it doesnt happen to everyone as soon as they have a baby, some people it takes a few years to realize life isnt about being selfish. And at that point it makes it possible to continue to have more children because your mind set is in a completely different place than a 20 year old mindset who just wants to have fun. There are still very many mornings when i just cant pull myself outta bed at 7am (ya for me thats still early im just about getting out of teenager mode) for my son who wants to eat breakfast. But im learning that this is my love, hes a part of me, and i need to make sure im doing the best to my ability to make sure hes comfortable and smiling. And now instead of complaining i ask advice on things i just dont feel im doing just right- and people have such amazing ideas of better ways of coping. But i do also realize i would have never come to this place if i wudda popped out 3-4 kids in 4 years. and i would most probably be a mess and non functioning. And i come from a family of 11 as mentioned- so not like i ever thought it would be a picnic. BUT i NEVER imagined this. And a side note- however hard it is for all u men- think about ur wives who go thru pregnancy- and on top of that with another baby and on top of that WORKING a JOB!!! I also feel like there is a lack of hands on chinuch teachings to go around, and i feel that todays society really screwed up what a jewish family should be.. how many people here feel that their houses would be a better place if we didnt have facebook, or DD to show and compare all of our perfect little lives with the world... I know that the times i get into a fight with my husband it always stemmed to something i saw on FB that so and so looks so happy always why cant we be like that. Media killed society. And thats why people have such a hard time with becoming parents because everything is so on the open, nothing is private anymore- and we need to be taught everything. Mothers should be home washing laundry in the river- and men should be out plowing fields- noone will have chinuch problems anymore.

Offline HelpMe

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Re: The truth about children - Warning: Controversial
« Reply #101 on: January 04, 2013, 03:44:26 AM »
I am following this thread and for the first time am lost for words. I will just say that it seems that many are getting married before they are ready.
"Elvis Has Left The Building"

Offline PlatinumGuy

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Re: The truth about children - Warning: Controversial
« Reply #102 on: January 04, 2013, 03:47:55 AM »
I am following this thread and for the first time am lost for words. I will just say that it seems that many are getting married before they are ready.
I agree, but part of the picture is that parents take a greater involvement in married kids lives (although that may also be a problem).

Many newly wed couples are supported by their parents.
״וזה כלל גדול: שישנא אדם כל דבר שקר. וכל מה שיוסיף שנאה לדרכי השקר יוסיף אהבה לתורה.״ - אורחות צדיקים

Offline Dan

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Re: The truth about children - Warning: Controversial
« Reply #103 on: January 04, 2013, 03:48:51 AM »
I am following this thread and for the first time am lost for words. I will just say that it seems that many are getting married before they are ready.
No surprise there.  There's societal pressure to date briefly, and get married and have kids early.
The real reason why people get married early though isn't usually because they want to but because "the good ones will be gone" coupled with that if they wait then people will wonder what's wrong with them.
Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.

Offline Dan

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Re: The truth about children - Warning: Controversial
« Reply #104 on: January 04, 2013, 03:49:23 AM »
Many newly wed couples are supported by their parents.
Depends on the sect.
Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.

Offline Galitzyaner

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Re: Re: The truth about children - Warning: Controversial
« Reply #105 on: January 04, 2013, 06:52:33 AM »
I know that the times i get into a fight with my husband it always stemmed to something i saw on FB that so and so looks so happy always why cant we be like that.
WTH :-X
There's societal pressure to get married and have kids early.
???  Halacha?!

Dan, maybe you can get Rabbi Chaikin to chime in on this thread ;D

Offline PlatinumGuy

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Re: Re: The truth about children - Warning: Controversial
« Reply #106 on: January 04, 2013, 07:06:07 AM »
Halacha?!
There is a very big difference between halacha and hanahaga
״וזה כלל גדול: שישנא אדם כל דבר שקר. וכל מה שיוסיף שנאה לדרכי השקר יוסיף אהבה לתורה.״ - אורחות צדיקים

Offline Galitzyaner

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Re: Re: Re: The truth about children - Warning: Controversial
« Reply #107 on: January 04, 2013, 07:13:27 AM »
There is a very big difference between halacha and hanahaga
Hanhaga sanctioned by halacha?

Offline PlatinumGuy

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Re: Re: Re: The truth about children - Warning: Controversial
« Reply #108 on: January 04, 2013, 08:02:46 AM »
Hanhaga sanctioned by halacha?
There is no halacha to get married young, or to procreate beyond 1 son and 1 daughter.
״וזה כלל גדול: שישנא אדם כל דבר שקר. וכל מה שיוסיף שנאה לדרכי השקר יוסיף אהבה לתורה.״ - אורחות צדיקים

Offline Galitzyaner

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Re: Re: Re: Re: The truth about children - Warning: Controversial
« Reply #109 on: January 04, 2013, 08:17:42 AM »
There is no halacha to get married young, or to procreate beyond 1 son and 1 daughter.
I guess 20 (the halachic "deadline" ) is not young in your books.

Offline Name Changed

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The truth about children - Warning: Controversial
« Reply #110 on: January 04, 2013, 08:21:42 AM »
There isn't an Halacha, But there is a Mitzva of Sheves


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Re: The truth about children - Warning: Controversial
« Reply #111 on: January 04, 2013, 08:27:31 AM »
I am following this thread and for the first time am lost for words. I will just say that it seems that many are getting married before they are ready.
From an outsider it gotta look like that. But typically we are all running happy health lives.



Offline PlatinumGuy

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Re: Re: Re: Re: The truth about children - Warning: Controversial
« Reply #112 on: January 04, 2013, 08:33:06 AM »
I guess 20 (the halachic "deadline" ) is not young in your books.
Thats not halacha.
״וזה כלל גדול: שישנא אדם כל דבר שקר. וכל מה שיוסיף שנאה לדרכי השקר יוסיף אהבה לתורה.״ - אורחות צדיקים

Offline Galitzyaner

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The truth about children - Warning: Controversial
« Reply #113 on: January 04, 2013, 08:43:34 AM »
Thats not halacha.
Yes it is, explicitly in Shu"a Evh"a siman alef.

Offline PlatinumGuy

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The truth about children - Warning: Controversial
« Reply #114 on: January 04, 2013, 08:57:03 AM »
Yes it is, explicitly in Shu"a Evh"a siman alef.
Halacha is something one is absolutely required to do, either because G-d commanded or because chazal commanded. Beis Din force one to do anything he is halchically required to.

Getting married before 20 is a guideline set forth by chazal, beis din aren't kofe someone to do that
״וזה כלל גדול: שישנא אדם כל דבר שקר. וכל מה שיוסיף שנאה לדרכי השקר יוסיף אהבה לתורה.״ - אורחות צדיקים

Offline YankyDoodle

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Re: The truth about children - Warning: Controversial
« Reply #115 on: January 04, 2013, 09:00:27 AM »
Everyone's talking about not being selfish and just giving yourselves over to your kids... It's in the kids best interest to have sane, functioning parents. For some ppl, they would be better off giving proper attention to a smaller number of children than popping them out by the dozens.

Offline PlatinumGuy

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Re: The truth about children - Warning: Controversial
« Reply #116 on: January 04, 2013, 09:03:24 AM »
Everyone's talking about not being selfish and just giving yourselves over to your kids... It's in the kids best interest to have sane, functioning parents. For some ppl, they would be better off giving proper attention to a smaller number of children than popping them out by the dozens.

בהדי כבשי דרחמנא למה לך? מאי דמפקדת, איבעי לך למעבד. ומה דניחא קמיה קודשא בריך הוא, ליעביד!


Not saying it applies here but food for thought.
״וזה כלל גדול: שישנא אדם כל דבר שקר. וכל מה שיוסיף שנאה לדרכי השקר יוסיף אהבה לתורה.״ - אורחות צדיקים

Offline Achas Veachas

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Re: The truth about children - Warning: Controversial
« Reply #117 on: January 04, 2013, 09:07:20 AM »
Not saying it applies here but food for thought.
Well seeing that the source of that quote is to someone who didn't want to have kids, I would say it's appropriate, though every case should be dealt with on its own merits with a CLOR.

Offline sky121

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Re: The truth about children - Warning: Controversial
« Reply #118 on: January 04, 2013, 09:15:03 AM »
Everyone's talking about not being selfish and just giving yourselves over to your kids... It's in the kids best interest to have sane, functioning parents. For some ppl, they would be better off giving proper attention to a smaller number of children than popping them out by the dozens.

2 separate issues.


1. People having too many kids they can't take care of properly (whether financially, physically, emotionally) .


2.  Raising children is hard.
Many aren't as prepared as they could be for what it entails. And even though it may seem like everyone else is doing it just fine, no problems, that isn't true.
It's hard. Just a fact. Not a bad one. Just a truth.
"Not all who wander are lost"

Offline puddles

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Re: The truth about children - Warning: Controversial
« Reply #119 on: January 04, 2013, 09:16:19 AM »
I agree. The cost of living is so high, and when you factor in all the needs of just one child it just skyrockets. Clothing, Food, Schooling, etc. If a couple doesn't have two moderate/well paying jobs it can get overwhelming and if you are lucky enough to have two working parents the stresses of making time for Doctor appointments, juggling the playgroup hours (which inevitably are hours that normal employers won't be happy about (9:30am - 2 pm?) all take a toll. Many people find their wives are working just to pay the babysitters and playgroups.
+100. Seriously, what is up with these playgroups? Dont they know people work after 2?