Author Topic: The truth about children - Warning: Controversial  (Read 51666 times)

Offline meshugener

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Re: The truth about children - Warning: Controversial
« Reply #135 on: January 04, 2013, 12:05:04 PM »

I am trying to figure out what the OP point is. Is he just trying to let out his personal frustration?
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Offline HelpMe

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Re: The truth about children - Warning: Controversial
« Reply #136 on: January 04, 2013, 12:26:09 PM »
Are you implying it gets better?
That would be an understatement.
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Offline MosheP

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Re: The truth about children - Warning: Controversial
« Reply #137 on: January 04, 2013, 12:28:17 PM »
That would be an understatement.

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Offline Achas Veachas

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Re: The truth about children - Warning: Controversial
« Reply #138 on: January 04, 2013, 12:35:21 PM »
Are you implying it gets better?
That would be an understatement.
The best being of course when they bring in the grandchildren; All the Nachas without the 4am burping marathons :)
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Offline WhyAich

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Re: The truth about children - Warning: Controversial
« Reply #139 on: January 04, 2013, 12:38:59 PM »
Everyone agrees that children will give you the most Nachas (sorry, not translateable), the question is:
1. Are you interested (meaning willing to) invest
2. How many can you handle

another point connected to this is:

You're suffering now (if you are) but you don't know what return of investment you'll get in the future. It's a very important point. We are just looking at the now and here. "it's hard, i can't sleep, apy for their clothing tuition etc., deal with thier tantrums.... but you have to see what you'll get back later.

think of it like any dealings you have in life, the greater the risk, work and investment, the greater the return. Many people don't want to risk, or do scary things, but they they have to live with the consequences, no return.

so in 2 (or a few) words: you invest, you get a return, you don't, and you wont :)
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Offline yehuda S

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Re: The truth about children - Warning: Controversial
« Reply #140 on: January 04, 2013, 01:11:41 PM »
Does anyone else on this forum know a couple who got divorced after a short marriage and left behind a single mother taking care of a child (or two), or am I the only one?

If so what does it say to you?

Is this not a heartbreaking situation that could easily be made about 99% less awful if some birth control had been strategically used?

(I personally know 4 that I can think of offhand)
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Offline meshugener

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Re: The truth about children - Warning: Controversial
« Reply #141 on: January 04, 2013, 01:15:35 PM »
Does anyone else on this forum know a couple who got divorced after a short marriage and left behind a single mother taking care of a child (or two), or am I the only one?


I know a few.
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Offline MosheP

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Re: The truth about children - Warning: Controversial
« Reply #142 on: January 04, 2013, 01:29:30 PM »
Does anyone else on this forum know a couple who got divorced after a short marriage and left behind a single mother taking care of a child (or two), or am I the only one?

I'm sure just about everyone here knows of unfortunate situations such as single parents.

If so what does it say to you?
It is very very sad, and might have been able to be avoided.

Is this not a heartbreaking situation that could easily be made about 99% less awful if some birth control had been strategically used?

Heartbreaking indeed. In many cases birth control should have been used. especially if there were circumstances that may have indicated a low success rate for the marriage. Perhaps ask the single mom if she would prefer not having her children. I am sure that they would say certainly  not!

Would you say that in an instance where someone dies young and leaves over a family, they should have not had children? No way!

I agree that couples who are unhappy together should wait before having a child/ additional children. However, not for the parents sake. Purely for the sake of the children.
(I personally know 4 that I can think of offhand)

Offline meshugener

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Re: The truth about children - Warning: Controversial
« Reply #143 on: January 04, 2013, 01:33:44 PM »

Would you say that in an instance where someone dies young and leaves over a family, they should have not had children? No way!


No comparison.
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Offline ganizzy

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Re: The truth about children - Warning: Controversial
« Reply #144 on: January 04, 2013, 01:35:38 PM »
Does anyone else on this forum know a couple who got divorced after a short marriage and left behind a single mother taking care of a child (or two), or am I the only one?

If so what does it say to you?

Is this not a heartbreaking situation that could easily be made about 99% less awful if some birth control had been strategically used?

(I personally know 4 that I can think of offhand)

you dont know why their marriage broke up.
i know of some single mothers that are happy that at least they got a child out of their bad marriage. they figure that thats why they had to go thru it in the first place.
of course u also have other perspectives.
im not saying people (especially those with marriage problems) shouldnt use bc, im just pointing out another view.

to be honest Yehudah s, u sound bitter rather then stressed.
i think we should have alot more preparation for other things as well but that makes me annoyed or stressed, not bitter and hating the situation.
i think its alot about attitude. yes it would be nice to have a heads up about child rearing, yes it would be nice if we had easy pregnancies, calm beautiful children that slept thru the night at 3 weeks old. and then never had a fight with their sibling. but thats prob not gonna happen.
so if u take an attitude of - man this is harder then i thought but i am already here so let me make the best of it. speak to people "in the know", get some tips and good ideas. try to create happy moments as a family. get a babysitter and go out with ur spouse at least twice a month. enjoy the nachas moments as they come. enjoy the brilliant things they say and do. talk to a friend to "let out" about the annoying things they do.

sometimes we can get really frustrated with our kids and we can think of 10 things they did wrong. on a good day do u also stop to think of 10 good things about them?

my hardest kid is also the brightest, the most talented and (sometimes) the most helpful. so when she starts acting up i have to take a mindset of how do i deal with this situation to calm her down, have her get back to her tzadekes mode. or at mimimum at least not make a bad situation worse by screaming, shouting and being negative.
if i just think, this is so hard and stressful, im 25 and shouldnt have to deal with this, i havent taken a vacation in 2 years bec of my kids.... then theres no way the situation wont go even more downhill.

so bottom line is - yes, kids are not easy to raise. yes there should be classes, awareness BEFORE we have kids, but we can still be happy with the children we have and try to find the positive.

cmon, who doesnt like being woken up at 6 am with ut 5 yr old crawling into ur bed adn saying I love u Mammy  :P

Offline MosheP

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Re: The truth about children - Warning: Controversial
« Reply #145 on: January 04, 2013, 01:45:32 PM »
No comparison.

The comparison is that they are both ridiculous.

It is horrible for the child to be in a home without a father, and with a mother that went through a divorce. And  maybe they should have not had children for the child's sake. It is ridiculous to say that a couple should have never had children because the mother is now stuck with kids. I would even venture to say that any mother that feels that way should have never been awarded custody!

Offline meshugener

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Re: The truth about children - Warning: Controversial
« Reply #146 on: January 04, 2013, 02:06:11 PM »
No way to compare to a child torn apart between 2 parents who hate each other.
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Offline AsherO

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Re: The truth about children - Warning: Controversial
« Reply #147 on: January 04, 2013, 02:20:42 PM »
@OP

1. Who said hardship and blessing are mutually exclusive.
2. Your entire childhood life was training for parenthood, how may children can be heard saying "when I will be big..." or "when I will be a tatty/mommy..."
3. This is a deals site, why is the perfect place to discuss this?
4. You now have a child, do the best you can (within your abilities) for her. If you're not sure you can handle any more, consult your LOR.
5. For your own mental health, focus on the things about your daughter that make you happy/proud etc.
6. BH you don't know how tragic it is for people who don't have children. Just like they don't know what your child-rearing difficulties are, so too you don't know theirs.

Chizkyahu.

An that was when he knew his descendants would be wicked, and G-d told him that isn't his problem and he must have children anyway (or he will die).

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Offline yehuda S

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Re: The truth about children - Warning: Controversial
« Reply #148 on: January 04, 2013, 03:26:08 PM »
1. Who said hardship and blessing are mutually exclusive.
No one thinks this.
2. Your entire childhood life was training for parenthood, how may children can be heard saying "when I will be big..." or "when I will be a tatty/mommy..."
I used to say "When I will be an astronaut.."
I am not prepared to be an astronaut.
3. This is a deals site, why is the perfect place to discuss this?
Seriously? This Forum is entitled: Just Schmooze:kick back and talk about anything. It also happens to be populated by frum Jews who share many of my experiences. Why don't you ask this in the thread about interesting videos or funny jokes?
4. You now have a child, do the best you can (within your abilities) for her. If you're not sure you can handle any more, consult your LOR.
I will carry this advice with me always.
5. For your own mental health, focus on the things about your daughter that make you happy/proud etc.
I already do. Several people suggested that I am merely venting or bitter even as I have reiterated that my concern is largely for the children being raised my incompetent parents. most parents will be ok, it's their children who will suffer. The events of the first few years of life are what defines a person's entire life.
6. BH you don't know how tragic it is for people who don't have children. Just like they don't know what your child-rearing difficulties are, so too you don't know theirs.
Exactly. So let's all stop pretending that it is always cushy and bubbling over with pride and nachas. That just makes them feel worse.
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Offline PlatinumGuy

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The truth about children - Warning: Controversial
« Reply #149 on: January 04, 2013, 04:13:57 PM »
Who ever said anything about beis din being kofeh anyone?
This is a halachik obligation, end of story.  Where do these other mayses and pshetlach ("hanhogo"/beis din kofin) come in?
Beis din is not "kofin" you to lay tefilin or shake lulav either, yet IIRC it's an obligation.
Beis din are kofe to lay tefillin & shake lulav.

Some BS here but he quotes the Gemara & Rambam that paskens it http://www.daat.ac.il/mishpat-ivri/skirot/311-2.htm

Iif you really don't understand the difference between the chiyuv to keep the shabbos & the din to get married by 20 you have a really big problem.
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