Author Topic: The truth about children - Warning: Controversial  (Read 51586 times)

Offline Dan

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Re: The truth about children - Warning: Controversial
« Reply #150 on: January 04, 2013, 05:28:17 PM »
Does anyone else on this forum know a couple who got divorced after a short marriage and left behind a single mother taking care of a child (or two), or am I the only one?

If so what does it say to you?

Is this not a heartbreaking situation that could easily be made about 99% less awful if some birth control had been strategically used?

(I personally know 4 that I can think of offhand)
I'm sure we all know of such couples.
Which is exactly why you can get a heter these days even before having any kids. 

The truth is that in shidduch dating you really don't know much about the person other than if they are able to put on a nice show/facade for a couple weeks.  Thus we try to learn as much as possible before even dating and talk for hours to see if there's compatibility, but more than that is in the hands of Gd.
You probably won't really get to know the person until after you've lived with them.

The incredible thing is that our divorce rate is still lower than the general public, though that can be attributed to stigma just as easily as it can be attributed to having the same general goals in life and the shidduch system working.
Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.

Offline Jkhein

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Re: The truth about children - Warning: Controversial
« Reply #151 on: January 05, 2013, 12:23:51 PM »
@OP

3. This is a deals site, why is the perfect place to discuss this?
Disagree. Just shmooze, is the right place for this to be posted. If anyone ever needs a vort of chizuk, advice, or similar, they should feel comfortable to post it here.

Offline Chaikel

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Re: The truth about children - Warning: Controversial
« Reply #152 on: January 05, 2013, 12:46:04 PM »
At first my thought was to agree with meshuganer. There is NO WAY it is possible for a parent to make a post like that. Not because of some God run mafia, or Rumpelstiltskinain threats, it just not some thing that a stable parent thinks.

But after seeing posts like this
...and this is the attitude that makes people ashamed to say they aren't coping well with parenthood. Thanks for illustrating it for everyone. Suffer in silence because you are supposed to feel differently about your child.

And this!?
Uh most people view death as the ultimate suffering. So why would they want to exchange pain for super pain? If people were absolutely certain of a happier life after death I think a lot of them would be lining up. As it is there are lots of suicides.

Seriously, if the OP a) doesn't believe there is a better life to come, and b) Is ready to commit suicide if he believed such a thing, well then he is way beyond the help of a forum, and critically needs immediate therapy and assistance. I would say his kid's life is in danger, both spiritually and physically, as this is a deeply disturbed attitude manifested by the kinds of parents that dump their kids in garbage cans. Something that a parent can't begin to comprehend, but people snap.

If anyone knows the OP personally they should try to make sure he gets professional help. This really sounds like pikuach nefesh.

We have to stop obfuscating the true issue at hand with discussions of coping and hardships, as clearly this isn't the root of the issue. We should be focusing on the need for the OP to get professional help

(HT MosheP for really hitting it out of the park in some posts)
« Last Edit: January 05, 2013, 01:27:00 PM by Chaikel »
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Offline Jkhein

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Re: The truth about children - Warning: Controversial
« Reply #153 on: January 05, 2013, 05:01:40 PM »
why the need to bash the OP? he does need help, but he is discussing an issue that we should help him with too, and share our experiences and how he can try to get helped too.
He plucked up his courage and decided to post - let's help him. (he definitely needs proffesional help too.)

Offline Chaikel

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Re: The truth about children - Warning: Controversial
« Reply #154 on: January 05, 2013, 05:22:18 PM »
why the need to bash the OP? he does need help, but he is discussing an issue that we should help him with too, and share our experiences and how he can try to get helped too.
He plucked up his courage and decided to post - let's help him. (he definitely needs proffesional help too.)
My point is this is way beyond the scope of a forum debate. If you want to help we can offer funds if he can't afford professional help, but that's about all
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Offline HelpMe

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Re: The truth about children - Warning: Controversial
« Reply #155 on: January 05, 2013, 05:42:14 PM »
If anyone knows the OP personally they should try to make sure he gets professional help.
Letís also include the community he comes from to get help also.  ;)
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Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: The truth about children - Warning: Controversial
« Reply #156 on: January 05, 2013, 07:09:46 PM »
At first my thought was to agree with meshuganer. There is NO WAY it is possible for a parent to make a post like that. Not because of some God run mafia, or Rumpelstiltskinain threats, it just not some thing that a stable parent thinks.

But after seeing posts like this
And this!?
Seriously, if the OP a) doesn't believe there is a better life to come, and b) Is ready to commit suicide if he believed such a thing, well then he is way beyond the help of a forum, and critically needs immediate therapy and assistance. I would say his kid's life is in danger, both spiritually and physically, as this is a deeply disturbed attitude manifested by the kinds of parents that dump their kids in garbage cans. Something that a parent can't begin to comprehend, but people snap.

If anyone knows the OP personally they should try to make sure he gets professional help. This really sounds like pikuach nefesh.

We have to stop obfuscating the true issue at hand with discussions of coping and hardships, as clearly this isn't the root of the issue. We should be focusing on the need for the OP to get professional help

(HT MosheP for really hitting it out of the park in some posts)
I agree, somethings off

Offline Ergel

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Re: The truth about children - Warning: Controversial
« Reply #157 on: January 05, 2013, 07:12:48 PM »
Second kid throwing up in three nights. Gross
Life isn't about checking the boxes. Nobody cares.

Offline DrDanny

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Re: The truth about children - Warning: Controversial
« Reply #158 on: January 05, 2013, 07:16:12 PM »
At first my thought was to agree with meshuganer. There is NO WAY it is possible for a parent to make a post like that. Not because of some God run mafia, or Rumpelstiltskinain threats, it just not some thing that a stable parent thinks.

But after seeing posts like this
And this!?
Seriously, if the OP a) doesn't believe there is a better life to come, and b) Is ready to commit suicide if he believed such a thing, well then he is way beyond the help of a forum, and critically needs immediate therapy and assistance. I would say his kid's life is in danger, both spiritually and physically, as this is a deeply disturbed attitude manifested by the kinds of parents that dump their kids in garbage cans.
I'm gonna say you took that several steps to far

Offline Dan

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Re: The truth about children - Warning: Controversial
« Reply #159 on: January 05, 2013, 08:19:37 PM »
OP can clearly use counseling, but I don't see why we can't discuss some of the issues at play here in a civilized manner.
Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.

Offline Dan

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Re: The truth about children - Warning: Controversial
« Reply #160 on: January 05, 2013, 08:20:58 PM »
That is a Kodak moment. You havenít seen anything yet. Wait till they get older.
I dunno, I can't really imagine a better moment that seeing the huge smile on my son's face after coming home from a trip.
Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.

Offline creditor

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Re: Re: The truth about children - Warning: Controversial
« Reply #161 on: January 05, 2013, 08:24:57 PM »
My point is this is way beyond the scope of a forum debate. If you want to help we can offer funds if he can't afford professional help, but that's about all
+100
I was thinking the exact same.
I'm just say'in©ģ

Offline HelpMe

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Re: The truth about children - Warning: Controversial
« Reply #162 on: January 05, 2013, 08:27:02 PM »
I dunno, I can't really imagine a better moment that seeing the huge smile on my son's face after coming home from a trip.
How about your son coming home from serving overseas and your street lined with friends and family welcoming him home and thanking him for his service?
"Elvis Has Left The Building"

Offline AsherO

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Re: The truth about children - Warning: Controversial
« Reply #163 on: January 05, 2013, 08:30:26 PM »
I used to say "When I will be an astronaut.."
I am not prepared to be an astronaut.Seriously?

You're born not knowing anything. Growing up is a chance to learn what a home is supposed to be like. If someone's parents didn't teach them (properly), it's incumbent upon them (as adults) to learn this on their own.

This Forum is entitled: Just Schmooze:kick back and talk about anything. It also happens to be populated by frum Jews who share many of my experiences. Why don't you ask this in the thread about interesting videos or funny jokes?

C'mon, are you comparing the responsibility of raising children to funny videos or jokes?

You have a responsibility, albeit a hard one. There are online forums devoted to parenting, even frum ones. There are also frum professionals and Rabbis who can guide you in this area. If you take your responsibility seriously you should pursue those venues.

While you can shmooze (or vent) about anything here, this isn't the ideal ("what better a place") to discuss this.

Several people suggested that I am merely venting or bitter even as I have reiterated that my concern is largely for the children being raised my incompetent parents. most parents will be ok, it's their children who will suffer. The events of the first few years of life are what defines a person's entire life.

I don't buy any of that. I don't mean to get too personal but the first 3-4 years of my life have been more traumatic than most people and while it took a lot of hard work for me as an adult, I am a happy functional person today BH. You're entitled to vent, but if people need help, they need to get it, and not just be aware of "the truth".

Exactly. So let's all stop pretending that it is always cushy and bubbling over with pride and nachas. That just makes them feel worse.

Life isn't all cushy etc. but instead of looking at your half-empty cup, deal with your issues so that you have a balanced view. People need to appreciate the good life and beware of the difficulties. Since you agreed the two aren't mutually exclusive, people who are happy-go-lucky can continue doing so (if it works for them), and the rest of us have things to beware of in a balanced way.

PGF24BMGS

Offline Galitzyaner

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The truth about children - Warning: Controversial
« Reply #164 on: January 05, 2013, 08:59:38 PM »
Beis din are kofe to lay tefillin & shake lulav.

Some BS here but he quotes the Gemara & Rambam that paskens it http://www.daat.ac.il/mishpat-ivri/skirot/311-2.htm

Iif you really don't understand the difference between the chiyuv to keep the shabbos & the din to get married by 20 you have a really big problem.
I stand corrected Re. the Lulav & Tefillin etc..

However,  from where do you get to this whole סברא that because by this particular Halacha the shu"a paskens that beis din is אין כופין, that therefore there is a lesser practical obligation?
Since when is the obligation any less? From where do you deduce that because a beis din is not kofe, makes any difference vis-a-vis practical obligation?

Do you have a source?  Or is this plain בּויך סברות?