Author Topic: The truth about children - Warning: Controversial  (Read 50541 times)

Offline HelpMe

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Re: The truth about children - Warning: Controversial
« Reply #210 on: January 06, 2013, 01:32:48 PM »
wouldn't want to confuse anybody into thinking you were coming from a position of knowledge when it wasn't
I have no medical or psychological training just common sense.  ;)
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Offline HelpMe

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Re: The truth about children - Warning: Controversial
« Reply #211 on: January 06, 2013, 01:39:11 PM »
Personally, my neighbor is one of 17 (ka"h) IIRC, and he's a normal guy with 4 (ka"h) kids of his own.
I knew Irish & Italian families that had 10+ children. This was not something the community promoted it was just their choice.
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Offline AsherO

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Re: The truth about children - Warning: Controversial
« Reply #212 on: January 06, 2013, 01:42:42 PM »
I knew Irish null Italian families that had 10+ children. This was not something the community promoted it was just their choice.

What do you call "the community promoting" something?

There are no bumper stickers in these communities reading "be religious: make more babies" or anyting to that effect.
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Offline moko

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Re: The truth about children - Warning: Controversial
« Reply #213 on: January 06, 2013, 01:45:02 PM »
What do you call "the community promoting" something?

There are no bumper stickers in these communities reading "be religious: make more babies" or anyting to that effect.
ROFL
just picturing it

Offline jj1000

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Re: The truth about children - Warning: Controversial
« Reply #214 on: January 06, 2013, 01:45:57 PM »
What do you call "the community promoting" something?

There are no bumper stickers in these communities reading "be religious: make more babies" or anyting to that effect.
I guess you didn't hear Rabbi Cunin speak after at his rally after Mumbai. On television he said "men put on teffilin and women have more babies". It was epic. All the bochurim were rolling.
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Offline HelpMe

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Re: The truth about children - Warning: Controversial
« Reply #215 on: January 06, 2013, 01:52:03 PM »
There are no bumper stickers in these communities reading "be religious: make more babies" or anyting to that effect.
LOL!

I got the impression from some of the posts that certain sect (hope that is the right word) it was expected to marry young and have children right away. Am I reading this wrong?

If this same pressure was exerted to have a lot (10+ to pick a number) of children I would see that as not normal and a big problem (IMHO).
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Offline Lamdan

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Re: The truth about children - Warning: Controversial
« Reply #216 on: January 06, 2013, 01:54:31 PM »
Dear Yehuda S, I think you should speak to a smart caring reputable Rav, you do seem really depressed about this. Maybe someone can lift up your spirits.
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Offline AsherO

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Re: The truth about children - Warning: Controversial
« Reply #217 on: January 06, 2013, 02:07:59 PM »
LOL!

I got the impression from some of the posts that certain sect (hope that is the right word) it was expected to marry young and have children right away. Am I reading this wrong?

If this same pressure was exerted to have a lot (10+ to pick a number) of children I would see that as not normal and a big problem (IMHO).

What about if ideally it was about promoting family values and a traditional lifestyle, and in reality is subverted into some sort of (implied?) community pressure, does that in any way make the underlying values any less valuable (pun)?
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Offline PlatinumGuy

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The truth about children - Warning: Controversial
« Reply #218 on: January 06, 2013, 02:16:26 PM »
I stand corrected Re. the Lulav & Tefillin etc..

However,  from where do you get to this whole סברא that because by this particular Halacha the shu"a paskens that beis din is אין כופין, that therefore there is a lesser practical obligation?
Since when is the obligation any less? From where do you deduce that because a beis din is not kofe, makes any difference vis-a-vis practical obligation?

Do you have a source?  Or is this plain בּויך סברות?

First of all, halacha doesnt start and end in the shulchan aruch, in order to understand the Shu"a we must look back at his sources all the way through to the torah.

Now, do you really thing the practical obligation to wake up before the neitz, is the same as the obligation to make a bris milah?

Now, Beis din are kofe to be mekayim anything that one is absolutely required to do. This is because it is their responsibility to ensure one complies with all obligations. Therefore, they don't have to wake people up at alois, since that is not an absolute requirement, but are koife people to have a bris milan.

Requirements can have 2 origins - deoriasa and derbanan. In the first, G-D directly commands a specific action, and we know so either because it is written in the torah, or by masoires (Halacha lemoshe msinayi, etc). The second origin is derbanan. Chazal had the power to make commandments similar to Gd. For example, the requirement to take תרומות ומעשרות bezman haze (according to some opinions) is a commandment similar to the din deroisa of תרומות ומעשרותin the olden days.

Anything not falling under the realm of those two origins, is not a chiyuv.
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Offline ChAiM'l

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Re: Re: The truth about children - Warning: Controversial
« Reply #219 on: January 06, 2013, 02:28:01 PM »
IMHO if that's how you feel then you should have sent it via PM
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Online Ergel

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Re: The truth about children - Warning: Controversial
« Reply #220 on: January 06, 2013, 02:35:10 PM »
Ergel is feeling stressed
-1, just grossed out. Although I do agree that the response to your response was unwarranted
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Offline elikay

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Re: The truth about children - Warning: Controversial
« Reply #221 on: January 06, 2013, 02:59:09 PM »
Any way to ignore threads in tapatalk?

Offline how

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Re: The truth about children - Warning: Controversial
« Reply #222 on: January 06, 2013, 03:05:57 PM »
Any way to ignore threads in tapatalk?
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Offline Galitzyaner

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What do you call "the community promoting" something?

There are no bumper stickers in these communities reading "be religious: make more babies" or anyting to that effect.
ROFL
I got the impression from some of the posts that certain sect (hope that is the right word) it was expected to marry young and have children right away. Am I reading this wrong?
No
If this same pressure was exerted to have a lot (10+ to pick a number) of children

No pressure at all, just a mitzvah  ;)

First of all, halacha doesnt start and end in the shulchan aruch, in order to understand the Shu"a we must look back at his sources all the way through to the torah.

Now, do you really thing the practical obligation to wake up before the neitz, is the same as the obligation to make a bris milah?

Now, Beis din are kofe to be mekayim anything that one is absolutely required to do. This is because it is their responsibility to ensure one complies with all obligations. Therefore, they don't have to wake people up at alois, since that is not an absolute requirement, but are koife people to have a bris milan.

Requirements can have 2 origins - deoriasa and derbanan. In the first, G-D directly commands a specific action, and we know so either because it is written in the torah, or by masoires (Halacha lemoshe msinayi, etc). The second origin is derbanan. Chazal had the power to make commandments similar to Gd. For example, the requirement to take תרומות ומעשרות bezman haze (according to some opinions) is a commandment similar to the din deroisa of תרומות ומעשרותin the olden days.

Anything not falling under the realm of those two origins, is not a chiyuv.
I ask you again, do you have a source that subscribes any less importance to marrying before (or starting at least at) 20 then any other halacha in Shu"a?

Any posek?  Any sefer? Any one?
Where do you get that there is any less of a chiyuv (because beis din is not כופין)? 
מקור please.

The רמ"א specifically here writes that  בזמה"ז נהגו שלא לכוף ע"ז (FYI the ערוה"ש disagrees in principle), to the contrary everywhere else by most other halachos it's usually not even mentioned whether כופין or not, and the נושאי כלים specifically say the reason(s) why in this instance בי"ד אין כופין (perhaps to show that the practical obligation stays the same?), yet at the same time they don't seem to (at all) minimize the practical obligation - the chiyuv..

(waking up at עלוה"ש is only a
mitzvah מן המובחר so no kidding..)
« Last Edit: January 06, 2013, 03:41:51 PM by Galitzyaner »

Offline PlatinumGuy

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Re: The truth about children - Warning: Controversial
« Reply #224 on: January 06, 2013, 03:53:36 PM »
Let's just get this straight. You believe someone without a bris & someone who got maried at 21 are both equally wrong?
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