Author Topic: The truth about children - Warning: Controversial  (Read 51024 times)

Offline moko

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Re: The truth about children - Warning: Controversial
« Reply #45 on: January 03, 2013, 10:17:46 PM »
+1000
Stressful? No.
???
what's tzar gidul banim all about

Offline yehuda S

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Re: The truth about children - Warning: Controversial
« Reply #46 on: January 03, 2013, 10:24:49 PM »
+100
Kids aren't the issue, its unreal expectations. Many young people expect that parenthood will be angelic cherub from a Pampers commercial (funny that they never show the actual changing of a diaper). My wife and I are both the oldest of pretty large families and both knew first hand what child rearing is and what it isn't. But then I have many friends who are totally overwhelmed and the #1 complaint i hear is "No 0ne told me it would be this hard".


This is a key point. One of the above posts mentioned people complaining about their kids on Facebook. That hasn't been my experience. I have a FB account and 99% of child pictures posted are the ones of their happy adorable kid looking as cute as a button and oozing nachas.

I feel like these pictures are somewhat false because they tell a story that is only half true. Yes there are times when your kid is happy and cute and makes you feel proud to be their parent, but the lightbulb went on for me when I posted one of the above mentioned photos and my kid was splattered in spaghetti sauce chucking meatballs over the side of her highchair and throwing a tantrum. But my single and infertile friends look at the picture of harmony and probably feel lonely and sad. Because I'm showing them the bliss that they are missing and yet it isn't all blissful.

Work is what you do between vacations.

Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: The truth about children - Warning: Controversial
« Reply #47 on: January 03, 2013, 10:35:32 PM »
Having a wife at home and being financially comfortable also helps a lot.
+100

Offline MarkS

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Re: The truth about children - Warning: Controversial
« Reply #48 on: January 03, 2013, 10:39:15 PM »
They say money won't bring happiness but if I'm gonna be sad anyway I'd rather be rich and sad than poor and sad!

Having live in help and when the wife doesn't need to work changes the dynamics entirely!

Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: The truth about children - Warning: Controversial
« Reply #49 on: January 03, 2013, 10:41:05 PM »
Don't wanna sound preachy, but we live in such a selfish society, where its all about how I can have fun, a good life a successful career etc. Sadly this life view has seeped into our communities too.
"A person was not put on this world for himself-only to better others". With this outlook, what may at times seem like a burden turns into a beautiful rewarding mission.
Especially raising Yiddishe kinder!

Offline Ergel

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Re: The truth about children - Warning: Controversial
« Reply #50 on: January 03, 2013, 10:56:56 PM »
Don't wanna sound preachy,
You do. And while everything you said is true, that's not the only reason why it's difficult to raise children. And to say so minimizes others challenges
Life isn't about checking the boxes. Nobody cares.

Offline yehuda S

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Re: The truth about children - Warning: Controversial
« Reply #51 on: January 03, 2013, 11:19:15 PM »
that's not the only reason why it's difficult to raise children.

I agree. The cost of living is so high, and when you factor in all the needs of just one child it just skyrockets. Clothing, Food, Schooling, etc. If a couple doesn't have two moderate/well paying jobs it can get overwhelming and if you are lucky enough to have two working parents the stresses of making time for Doctor appointments, juggling the playgroup hours (which inevitably are hours that normal employers won't be happy about (9:30am - 2 pm?) all take a toll. Many people find their wives are working just to pay the babysitters and playgroups.
Work is what you do between vacations.

Offline Ergel

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Re: The truth about children - Warning: Controversial
« Reply #52 on: January 03, 2013, 11:26:01 PM »
I agree. The cost of living is so high, and when you factor in all the needs of just one child it just skyrockets. Clothing, Food, Schooling, etc. If a couple doesn't have two moderate/well paying jobs it can get overwhelming and if you are lucky enough to have two working parents the stresses of making time for Doctor appointments, juggling the playgroup hours (which inevitably are hours that normal employers won't be happy about (9:30am - 2 pm?) all take a toll. Many people find their wives are working just to pay the babysitters and playgroups.
The financial burden can definitely be overwhelming. And that it was just with two young kids. That really starts to multiply when they reach elementary and high school
Life isn't about checking the boxes. Nobody cares.

Offline asd

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Re: The truth about children - Warning: Controversial
« Reply #53 on: January 03, 2013, 11:27:11 PM »
it seems to me its all about the chinuch you recieved, does anyone complain about how hard it is to keep shabbos,jkosher,etc no because you were taught your whole life that is the essence of being a jew. well my fellow jew having children is in hashkafah and halachah the same as shabbos and if you were taught that from a young age it would be much easier to deal with.
« Last Edit: January 03, 2013, 11:39:44 PM by asd »

Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: The truth about children - Warning: Controversial
« Reply #54 on: January 03, 2013, 11:43:40 PM »
it seems to me its all about the chinuch you recieved, does anyone complain about how hard it is to keep shabbos,jkosher,etc no because you were taught your whole life that is the essence of being a jew. well my fellow jew having children is in hashkafah and halachah the same as shabbos and if you were taught that from a young age it would be much easier to deal with.(as a side note the stiepler says every person will have in his life a certain amount of hardship and children count towards the cheshbon.if you take away the hardship of children it will be replaced with something else so you wont gain by reducing the number children you have . )
Thats all very nice but most mothers are not physically or psychologically designed to produce a child every 12 months.
If A: the mother will suffer emotionally or physically from being constantly pre or post natal or B; The mother will neglect to be able to properly care for the other babies, from last year or two years, ago due to being constantly pre or post natal then BC is a CHIYUV.
Ask a local pharmacist. a disproportional number of woman suffer from anxiety and depression. Emotionall illnes is pikuach nefesh (-igras mosheh)
"Revach bein eider laeider" is the way to go  8)

Offline PlatinumGuy

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Re: The truth about children - Warning: Controversial
« Reply #55 on: January 03, 2013, 11:50:59 PM »
it seems to me its all about the chinuch you recieved, does anyone complain about how hard it is to keep shabbos,jkosher,etc no because you were taught your whole life that is the essence of being a jew. well my fellow jew having children is in hashkafah and halachah the same as shabbos and if you were taught that from a young age it would be much easier to deal with.

BS. In fact your misunderstanding of our religion is part of whats causing OPs problem. Keeping Shabbos is an absolute requirement. Procreation beyond a first boy and girl is at most מצווה קיומית, like tzedaka (after the first perutta). The only difference is that the gemara says פרו ורבו overrides other mizvos because of the sevara of לשבת יצרה, however no where does it say that applies also after the first son & daughter.

OP addresses another issue, of whether having more kids is negative for them/previous kids. It is an old moral question, should blind people procreate or not. Chizkeyahu didn't want to bear children because he saw in nevuah they would be reshaim, but hashem told him:

בהדי כבשי דרחמנא למה לך? מאי דמפקדת, איבעי לך למעבד. ומה דניחא קמיה קודשא בריך הוא, ליעביד!
« Last Edit: January 03, 2013, 11:56:38 PM by PlatinumGuy »
Purpose > Pleasure

Offline Centurion

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Re: The truth about children - Warning: Controversial
« Reply #56 on: January 03, 2013, 11:51:12 PM »
Thats all very nice but most mothers are not physically or psychologically designed to produce a child every 12 months.
If A: the mother will suffer emotionally or physically from being constantly pre or post natal or B; The mother will neglect to be able to properly care for the other babies, from last year or two years, ago due to being constantly pre or post natal then BC is a CHIYUV.
Ask a local pharmacist. a disproportional number of woman suffer from anxiety and depression. Emotionall illnes is pikuach nefesh (-igras mosheh)
"Revach bein eider laeider" is the way to go  8)
gemorah says every 24 months (chof daled chodesh)
you can only make a first impression ONCE

Offline newcomer

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Re: The truth about children - Warning: Controversial
« Reply #57 on: January 03, 2013, 11:51:28 PM »
Not gonna argue that having kids and raising kids is hard, but the joy in watching them explore the world and growing up is amazing.  Yes, they go thru hard times, (I've got bigger kids), we go thru hard times and it takes lots of energy and work to raise them right, but look for their smiles, and enjoy the time when they are happy and good!!

Offline Centurion

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Re: The truth about children - Warning: Controversial
« Reply #58 on: January 03, 2013, 11:52:16 PM »
BS. In fact your misunderstanding of our religion is part of whats causing OPs problem. Keeping Shabbos is an absolute requirement. Procreation beyond a first boy and girl is at most מצווה קיומית, like tzedaka (after the first perutta). The only difference is that the gemara says פרו ורבו overrides other mizvos because of the sevara of לשבת יצרה, however no where does it say that applies also after the first son & daughter.
or two of each (grandchildren as well)
you can only make a first impression ONCE

Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: The truth about children - Warning: Controversial
« Reply #59 on: January 03, 2013, 11:54:52 PM »
gemorah says every 24 months (chof daled chodesh)
That means 24+9 for pregnancy. If people would just stick to that life would be easier. Around here many go for one birth per year...