Author Topic: The truth about children - Warning: Controversial  (Read 60494 times)

Offline Satmar Lady

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Re: The truth about children - Warning: Controversial
« Reply #585 on: December 05, 2013, 08:08:36 PM »
Yehuda, Iím pretty sure your feelings about child rearing will drastically change after you leave the Mommy role for Mommy. My husband is all smiles after spending an hour with the kids. But if I ever make the mistake of figuring he can do it for a few hours just as well, while I catch up on some work (in home office), he gets extremely overwhelmed. I canít help teasing him that I manage to do this every day, and the house stays clean too.
On the other hand I think women donít have such an issue bringing parnassah, especially if itís something they enjoy doing, but most women would probably find it hard to take care of the family's finances Ė paying bills, managing bank accounts etc.
 

Offline yehuda S

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Re: The truth about children - Warning: Controversial
« Reply #586 on: December 05, 2013, 08:12:48 PM »

Did the cost of living vs the average wage go up so much in the last 40 years?
40 years ago mother's didn't work.
That's exactly the reason. An employer had to pay a man enough to support his family.

Today he just has to pay him half of that because the wife is working too.

Thanks, feminism.
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Offline Baruch

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Re: The truth about children - Warning: Controversial
« Reply #587 on: December 05, 2013, 08:38:09 PM »
Actually to give some background, my wife is in school day and night so I am Tatty, Mommy, full time earner, diaper changer, morning clothes dresser, breakfast feeder, brown bag luncher, (for Mommy too) ponytail-maker, supper cooker, bather, pajama dresser, tantrum consoler, bedtime story teller, full time house keeper, laundry do-er, (night Seder chavrusa), among others.

;-)
Wow! Why didn't you say so earlier. Man do I feel your pain. I take back all the referrals to professionals. I would have snapped if I was in your situation, by now.
Especially after reading that your living on a poor man's budget. Hopefully everything works out soon after you guys finish with your schooling.

Offline YankyDoodle

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Re: The truth about children - Warning: Controversial
« Reply #588 on: December 05, 2013, 10:56:51 PM »
Öand if you are willing to make some small sacrifices it is possible to do both. Have both parents work and have one parent at home.
Polygamy?

Offline skyguy918

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Re: The truth about children - Warning: Controversial
« Reply #589 on: December 06, 2013, 01:20:11 AM »
Now this all makes sense. The Torah tell us Paroh made the the Jew do "Avodas Perech". The meforshim explain that he made the men raise the children and do house work, while the women went out to work. I once heard a shiur on shalom bayis where the Rabbi asked "that's what the Torah calls 'Avodas Perech'?" And the answer is yes. Hashem optimized male and female to their designed role, and when one isn't in their designed role, the ride can be very bumpy. Try driving down the highway in a plane.

So sorry for judging you. I'm sure there is good reason why you have to be in this position, but the Torah calls what you're doing 'Avodas Parech', I don't think I am able to put myself into your shoes
+1, saw this in R' Chaim Friedlander's kuntres Ve'Yadaata Ki Shalom Ohalecha, which my Rov gives a shiur from.

Good luck finding a well paying job that lets you get off at 3.
Just a tip for everyone out there looking for the same: NYC public schools. I can elaborate another time if anyone cares, but it's unreal how sweet a deal this can be.

Offline yehuda S

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Re: The truth about children - Warning: Controversial
« Reply #590 on: December 06, 2013, 02:13:11 AM »

.
Just a tip for everyone out there looking for the same: NYC public schools. I can elaborate another time if anyone cares, but it's unreal how sweet a deal this can be.
How about elaborating now?
Work is what you do between vacations.

Online CountValentine

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Re: The truth about children - Warning: Controversial
« Reply #591 on: December 06, 2013, 06:15:05 AM »
Polygamy?
I don't live in Utah.  :P
Where is it written you both have to work the same hours?
You're so far up Trump's a** you can see Giuliani's feet.  HT Baruch

Offline hertzinstl

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Re: The truth about children - Warning: Controversial
« Reply #592 on: December 06, 2013, 06:25:12 AM »
Where is it written you both have to work the same hours?
JOHN 9:4 :P

Online CountValentine

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Re: The truth about children - Warning: Controversial
« Reply #593 on: December 06, 2013, 06:29:17 AM »
JOHN 9:4 :P
Not according to Mathew 5:12

ETA: I thought you were making a joke.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2013, 06:34:02 AM by CountValentine »
You're so far up Trump's a** you can see Giuliani's feet.  HT Baruch

Offline hertzinstl

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Re: The truth about children - Warning: Controversial
« Reply #594 on: December 06, 2013, 06:36:42 AM »
Never heard of google?

Offline Jkhein

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Re: The truth about children - Warning: Controversial
« Reply #595 on: December 06, 2013, 06:55:12 AM »


ETA: I thought you were making a joke.
Am ha'aretz

Offline skyguy918

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Re: The truth about children - Warning: Controversial
« Reply #596 on: December 06, 2013, 10:48:11 AM »
How about elaborating now?
Most frum women working in public school are not regular teachers (though a similar case can probably be made for that type of job too), so let's take speech therapy as an example.

Here's a link to the salary scale. Right out of graduate school you'd start at the column labeled Approved MA, row 1A, for $51,425. But you can step up to the columns at the right of the page just by adding credits. So let's say you don't want to deal with that during your first school year, so you leave it off to the summer. You take 30 credits of CLEPs (extremely easy to do, it's pretty pathetic) over the summer, and with your year of service, the next year you'll be in the rightmost column, row 2A, for $60,224. You'll then get modest raises over the next few years, till 5 years of service, after which you'll jump to $75,796.

On top of that, if you're working in a District 75 (special ed) school, you have the option of working summer school for an extra 17% of your salary. The amount of days you end up working is less than 17% of the rest of the year, and the environment is generally much more relaxed, so it's a no brainer to work summer too. If you work in a regular school you can still try to get a summer job, but I think you're only guaranteed a spot if you work in D75 the rest of the year.

Next comes schedule. You will work a lot less hours in year (even with summer school) than the average 40 hour desk job, for 2 reasons. First of all, most schools are something like 8-3, maybe more, but definitely not an 8 hour workday. Second of all, here's a list of days schools are closed:
9/2: Labor Day
9/5-9/6: Rosh Hashana
10/14: Columbus Day
11/11: Veterans Day
11/28-11/29: Thanksgiving
12/23-1/1: Winter Recess
1/20: MLK Day
2/17-2/21: Midwinter Recess
4/14-4/22: Spring Recess
5/26: Memorial Day
If you're not working summer, you're then usually off from the end of June to Labor Day. If you are working summer, there's usually a day or 2 before you report for summer school, and then 2 or 3 weeks at the end of the summer.

All in all that's a lot of time off, and earn an additional day per month of Cumulative Absence Reserve (basically sick days) which you can accumulate up to 200 days. You get paid for half of the days you have left when you retire, at your salary at that time.

Last but not least is the benefits. You get very good medical coverage for free, as well as dental, vision, and prescription as part of your union dues. And you also get a real pension, as in the defined benefit type that's rarer than an endangered species these days.

Sounds like a pretty good deal, no? Sorry for the big OT post.

Offline Ergel

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Re: The truth about children - Warning: Controversial
« Reply #597 on: December 06, 2013, 10:54:30 AM »
And unlike working in a Jewish school they are not allowed to give you work to do at home so they just provide therapists with time to write up their reports during the day. A sweet deal indeed
Life isn't about checking the boxes. Nobody cares.

Offline skyguy918

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Re: The truth about children - Warning: Controversial
« Reply #598 on: December 06, 2013, 11:25:22 AM »
And unlike working in a Jewish school they are not allowed to give you work to do at home so they just provide therapists with time to write up their reports during the day. A sweet deal indeed
That's unions for you. There was actually a whole thing this year where the union was fighting with the DOE about work outside of school hours entering session data into the system, and at the end of it the city had to send out checks to everyone for the time they used the system outside of work.

Offline yehuda S

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Re: The truth about children - Warning: Controversial
« Reply #599 on: December 06, 2013, 11:31:43 AM »
Most frum women working in public school are not regular teachers (though a similar case can probably be made for that type of job too), so let's take speech therapy as an example.

Here's a link to the salary scale. Right out of graduate school you'd start at the column labeled Approved MA, row 1A, for $51,425. But you can step up to the columns at the right of the page just by adding credits. So let's say you don't want to deal with that during your first school year, so you leave it off to the summer. You take 30 credits of CLEPs (extremely easy to do, it's pretty pathetic) over the summer, and with your year of service, the next year you'll be in the rightmost column, row 2A, for $60,224. You'll then get modest raises over the next few years, till 5 years of service, after which you'll jump to $75,796.

On top of that, if you're working in a District 75 (special ed) school, you have the option of working summer school for an extra 17% of your salary. The amount of days you end up working is less than 17% of the rest of the year, and the environment is generally much more relaxed, so it's a no brainer to work summer too. If you work in a regular school you can still try to get a summer job, but I think you're only guaranteed a spot if you work in D75 the rest of the year.

Next comes schedule. You will work a lot less hours in year (even with summer school) than the average 40 hour desk job, for 2 reasons. First of all, most schools are something like 8-3, maybe more, but definitely not an 8 hour workday. Second of all, here's a list of days schools are closed:
9/2: Labor Day
9/5-9/6: Rosh Hashana
10/14: Columbus Day
11/11: Veterans Day
11/28-11/29: Thanksgiving
12/23-1/1: Winter Recess
1/20: MLK Day
2/17-2/21: Midwinter Recess
4/14-4/22: Spring Recess
5/26: Memorial Day
If you're not working summer, you're then usually off from the end of June to Labor Day. If you are working summer, there's usually a day or 2 before you report for summer school, and then 2 or 3 weeks at the end of the summer.

All in all that's a lot of time off, and earn an additional day per month of Cumulative Absence Reserve (basically sick days) which you can accumulate up to 200 days. You get paid for half of the days you have left when you retire, at your salary at that time.

Last but not least is the benefits. You get very good medical coverage for free, as well as dental, vision, and prescription as part of your union dues. And you also get a real pension, as in the defined benefit type that's rarer than an endangered species these days.

Sounds like a pretty good deal, no? Sorry for the big OT post.

Yes this sounds amazing. Are other places as generous as NY? (NJ)

What kinds of jobs other than speech therapist are available?

Thanks for your time.
Work is what you do between vacations.