The truth about children - Warning: Controversial

[stbaum]

Too many comments for me to address them all, but I have a few general comments to add to this discussion.

It seems to me that as parents, there will always be a balance between doing things in the way you feel will have the absolute best 'chinuch' effect on them, and doing things in whatever way solves the issue the quickest/easiest. If you can always do it the best/chinuch way, good for you, your children will probably be better off for it. But unless you're always doing it the quickest/easiest way, don't beat yourself up about it, you're not permanently damaging your child or anything. Sometimes we have to make choices between wasting an hour that we don't have to spare trying to get a child to do something, and figuring out a quick trick, that may not be the absolute best method of parenting, to get them to do it quickly. I hope that makes sense to people.

As far as the actual methods, you have to find what works for each child at any particular time. Every child will be different, and each child changes over time in this regard (very rapidly I might add).

+1

[benjie1305]

Too many comments for me to address them all, but I have a few general comments to add to this discussion.

It seems to me that as parents, there will always be a balance between doing things in the way you feel will have the absolute best 'chinuch' effect on them, and doing things in whatever way solves the issue the quickest/easiest. If you can always do it the best/chinuch way, good for you, your children will probably be better off for it. But unless you're always doing it the quickest/easiest way, don't beat yourself up about it, you're not permanently damaging your child or anything. Sometimes we have to make choices between wasting an hour that we don't have to spare trying to get a child to do something, and figuring out a quick trick, that may not be the absolute best method of parenting, to get them to do it quickly. I hope that makes sense to people.

As far as the actual methods, you have to find what works for each child at any particular time. Every child will be different, and each child changes over time in this regard (very rapidly I might add).

Agreed. I was just looking for ways to better do the quickest/easiest

[YankyDoodle]

Agreed. I was just looking for ways to better do the quickest/easiest

Operant conditioning; it's old-school but reward vs punishment works really well for many. A sticker chart or something to that effect as a reward for listening right away (having prizes in a dedicated prize drawer that they can see and pick from when they complete the chart is helpful in making in more tangible). For punishment it can be a variety of things and to each their own. Personally we try to avoid punishment by implying that the punishment is that she won't get her sticker (in effect just not getting the reward), this may or may not work depending on the stubbornness and temperament of the child. Punishment can be not getting video time, only one book at bedtime etc are reasonable as well.

If used correctly it can be very effective. The one problem that studies have found with this method is that when the reward/punishments stop being consistent (when kid is older for example) the habits may dissipate with them. This can be alleviated by keeping it a little more random (they don't necessarily get a reward every time and sometimes they get a reward when they are not expecting it). This removes the tit-for-tat mentality of the good behavior and creates more of a positive mindset without always expecting a reward.

[benjie1305]

Operant conditioning; it's old-school but reward vs punishment works really well for many. A sticker chart or something to that effect as a reward for listening right away (having prizes in a dedicated prize drawer that they can see and pick from when they complete the chart is helpful in making in more tangible). For punishment it can be a variety of things and to each their own. Personally we try to avoid punishment by implying that the punishment is that she won't get her sticker (in effect just not getting the reward), this may or may not work depending on the stubbornness and temperament of the child. Punishment can be not getting video time, only one book at bedtime etc are reasonable as well.

Is how we originally trained her to go on the potty which is flawless for a long time already AND how I got her to eat some Salmon and veggies she never had before

[YankyDoodle]

Is how we originally trained her to go on the potty which is flawless for a long time already AND how I got her to eat some Salmon and veggies she never had before

Yup, oldie-but-goodie.

[killamatic12]

Reading through this WHOLE thread was like watching a soap opera; there's a common problem that could be dealt with and one guy does (or in this case "says") something not normal and in the end everyone understand that his case was an unusual one and they lived happily ever after.

[Achas Veachas]

[stbaum]

+100

[good sam]

Why a duck?

[benjie1305]

[Moshe123]

Bump

[lunatic]

Bump

Lol,  bring him over here

[Moshe123]

Bump

Yeah. Why not.

OP stopped posting, likely because he was attacked a lot, but he still lurks.

Let's hear from him how it is after this amount of time has passed.

[Kobe Bryant]

Yeah. Why not.

OP stopped posting, likely because he was attacked a lot, but he still lurks.

Let's hear from him how it is after this amount of time has passed.

@yehuda S

[DaasTora]

Bump

[Alexsei]

Bump

That should rather be BUSOBT

[imayid2]

BUSOBT

What does that stand for?

[Alexsei]

What does that stand for?

Bring up some old buried thread (since bump stands for "bring up my post".
Either way I guess his mission was accomplished. Back to regular programming.

[WayBackMachine]

Having a child is really, really, really, difficult, even painful sometimes.

It seems like in the frum community having lots of children is sacrosanct. Speak to people and even if they have a lot of difficulty with their kids, they are quick to assure you that children are a blessing lest they seem ungrateful.

Couples with no or few children are looked upon sadly as though they must be suffering. An infertile couple is made to seem tragic.

If you are a parent who has complained about your child, have you ever quickly retracted the complaint for fear that G-d may take away your child for complaining?

I have one daughter and at times she can make us pretty miserable. I believe lots of couples may be suffering, having been thrust into parenthood without having even a basic idea of what to expect. They are afraid to voice complaints so they won't be seen as ungrateful to G-d or incompetent parents. This is especially true while in the company of single/infertile friends.

I've taken a look around and noticed couples who had one child right after marriage and then waited a looong time before having another. Is this due to the jarring reality of having children?

The sad reality is it's the child who suffers most from an unprepared parent

It's high time this discussion takes place, in my (humble) opinion, and what better place to start it than DDF?

Your thoughts?

I'm sorry for the frustration I may have caused you,
I cant believe you posted my issues on a public forum,
how would you feel if I would post here your issues?