Author Topic: The truth about children - Warning: Controversial  (Read 121010 times)

Offline yehuda S

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Re: The truth about children - Warning: Controversial
« Reply #200 on: January 06, 2013, 12:30:55 PM »
Second kid throwing up in three nights. Gross

I feel for you  :'(

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Offline yare

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Re: The truth about children - Warning: Controversial
« Reply #201 on: January 06, 2013, 12:41:13 PM »
I feel for you  :'(


a little kids throwup evokes a crying emoticon for the fathers troubles?  really?    take a long look in the mirror, man   cuz you are one self centered dude.    with that kind of attitude i can't imagine you have very healthy relationships with anybody that require giving on your part.  go speak to a professional.

Offline HelpMe

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Re: The truth about children - Warning: Controversial
« Reply #202 on: January 06, 2013, 12:46:21 PM »
I dont know where SI is from, but the bigger families in a lot of communities 12 or so is normal, so then 15 would be whats called a lot
15 definitely happens in some communities (personally know at least 3 families with 15+)
I know 2 families with 16.
I hope the community does not promote this or thinks it is normal. For the record I assume we are talking about a Jewish community but my position would be the same if it was Irish, Hispanic or any other community.
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Offline MarkS

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Re: The truth about children - Warning: Controversial
« Reply #203 on: January 06, 2013, 01:02:09 PM »
I hope the community does not promote this or thinks it is normal. For the record I assume we are talking about a Jewish community but my position would be the same if it was Irish, Hispanic or any other community.
Knowing 2 families of 16 or 3 of 15 doesn't at all represent what is 'promoted'. From the many hundreds of families that I know I only know of 1 or 2 over 12.

Offline yare

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Re: The truth about children - Warning: Controversial
« Reply #204 on: January 06, 2013, 01:02:57 PM »
I hope the community does not promote this or thinks it is normal.
why not?   who are you to define what's normal and healthy for any given community?

Offline Achas Veachas

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Re: The truth about children - Warning: Controversial
« Reply #205 on: January 06, 2013, 01:08:33 PM »
Knowing 2 families of 16 or 3 of 15 doesn't at all represent what is 'promoted'. From the many hundreds of families that I know I only know of 1 or 2 over 12.
+1 Didn't say it was the norm, though the norm is definitely bigger than the norm in the rest of America.

Offline HelpMe

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Re: The truth about children - Warning: Controversial
« Reply #206 on: January 06, 2013, 01:10:03 PM »
why not?   who are you to define what's normal and healthy for any given community?
I guess no one should give their opinion?

If another Jim Jones pops up we should not say anything?
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Offline yare

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Re: The truth about children - Warning: Controversial
« Reply #207 on: January 06, 2013, 01:12:55 PM »
I guess no one should give their opinion?
who said anything about not giving your opinion?     i asked you what your opinion is based on.    if it's based on nothing (as so far you've provided nothing), then maybe you should qualify it.  wouldn't want to confuse anybody into thinking you were coming from a position of knowledge when it wasn't

Offline yehuda S

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Re: The truth about children - Warning: Controversial
« Reply #208 on: January 06, 2013, 01:25:19 PM »
a little kids throwup evokes a crying emoticon for the fathers troubles?  really?    take a long look in the mirror, man   cuz you are one self centered dude.    with that kind of attitude i can't imagine you have very healthy relationships with anybody that require giving on your part.  go speak to a professional.

Ergel is feeling stressed and I want him/her to know I sympathize.
What's with the hate?

I think when you receive hate for saying something it means you are right. Because if you were on the wrong side, the disagreements would be polite and not mean spirited. 
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Offline AsherO

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Re: The truth about children - Warning: Controversial
« Reply #209 on: January 06, 2013, 01:25:53 PM »
I hope the community does not promote this or thinks it is normal. For the record I assume we are talking about a Jewish community but my position would be the same if it was Irish, Hispanic or any other community.

"Be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth and conquer it" (Gen. 1:28), some take that literally. With today's technology there are more than 3x the amount of people compared to 50 years ago, and less people living in poverty. And technology is only getting better. Also, most of the population that will be alive in 2050 (when world population is expected to peak at 10 billion) are already alive.

Personally, my neighbor is one of 17 (ka"h) IIRC, and he's a normal guy with 4 (ka"h) kids of his own.
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Offline HelpMe

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Re: The truth about children - Warning: Controversial
« Reply #210 on: January 06, 2013, 01:32:48 PM »
wouldn't want to confuse anybody into thinking you were coming from a position of knowledge when it wasn't
I have no medical or psychological training just common sense.  ;)
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Offline HelpMe

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Re: The truth about children - Warning: Controversial
« Reply #211 on: January 06, 2013, 01:39:11 PM »
Personally, my neighbor is one of 17 (ka"h) IIRC, and he's a normal guy with 4 (ka"h) kids of his own.
I knew Irish & Italian families that had 10+ children. This was not something the community promoted it was just their choice.
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Offline AsherO

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Re: The truth about children - Warning: Controversial
« Reply #212 on: January 06, 2013, 01:42:42 PM »
I knew Irish null Italian families that had 10+ children. This was not something the community promoted it was just their choice.

What do you call "the community promoting" something?

There are no bumper stickers in these communities reading "be religious: make more babies" or anyting to that effect.
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Online moko

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Re: The truth about children - Warning: Controversial
« Reply #213 on: January 06, 2013, 01:45:02 PM »
What do you call "the community promoting" something?

There are no bumper stickers in these communities reading "be religious: make more babies" or anyting to that effect.
ROFL
just picturing it

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Re: The truth about children - Warning: Controversial
« Reply #214 on: January 06, 2013, 01:45:57 PM »
What do you call "the community promoting" something?

There are no bumper stickers in these communities reading "be religious: make more babies" or anyting to that effect.
I guess you didn't hear Rabbi Cunin speak after at his rally after Mumbai. On television he said "men put on teffilin and women have more babies". It was epic. All the bochurim were rolling.
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Offline HelpMe

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Re: The truth about children - Warning: Controversial
« Reply #215 on: January 06, 2013, 01:52:03 PM »
There are no bumper stickers in these communities reading "be religious: make more babies" or anyting to that effect.
LOL!

I got the impression from some of the posts that certain sect (hope that is the right word) it was expected to marry young and have children right away. Am I reading this wrong?

If this same pressure was exerted to have a lot (10+ to pick a number) of children I would see that as not normal and a big problem (IMHO).
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Offline Lamdan

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Re: The truth about children - Warning: Controversial
« Reply #216 on: January 06, 2013, 01:54:31 PM »
Dear Yehuda S, I think you should speak to a smart caring reputable Rav, you do seem really depressed about this. Maybe someone can lift up your spirits.
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Offline AsherO

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Re: The truth about children - Warning: Controversial
« Reply #217 on: January 06, 2013, 02:07:59 PM »
LOL!

I got the impression from some of the posts that certain sect (hope that is the right word) it was expected to marry young and have children right away. Am I reading this wrong?

If this same pressure was exerted to have a lot (10+ to pick a number) of children I would see that as not normal and a big problem (IMHO).

What about if ideally it was about promoting family values and a traditional lifestyle, and in reality is subverted into some sort of (implied?) community pressure, does that in any way make the underlying values any less valuable (pun)?
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Offline PlatinumGuy

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The truth about children - Warning: Controversial
« Reply #218 on: January 06, 2013, 02:16:26 PM »
I stand corrected Re. the Lulav & Tefillin etc..

However,  from where do you get to this whole סברא that because by this particular Halacha the shu"a paskens that beis din is אין כופין, that therefore there is a lesser practical obligation?
Since when is the obligation any less? From where do you deduce that because a beis din is not kofe, makes any difference vis-a-vis practical obligation?

Do you have a source?  Or is this plain בּויך סברות?

First of all, halacha doesnt start and end in the shulchan aruch, in order to understand the Shu"a we must look back at his sources all the way through to the torah.

Now, do you really thing the practical obligation to wake up before the neitz, is the same as the obligation to make a bris milah?

Now, Beis din are kofe to be mekayim anything that one is absolutely required to do. This is because it is their responsibility to ensure one complies with all obligations. Therefore, they don't have to wake people up at alois, since that is not an absolute requirement, but are koife people to have a bris milan.

Requirements can have 2 origins - deoriasa and derbanan. In the first, G-D directly commands a specific action, and we know so either because it is written in the torah, or by masoires (Halacha lemoshe msinayi, etc). The second origin is derbanan. Chazal had the power to make commandments similar to Gd. For example, the requirement to take תרומות ומעשרות bezman haze (according to some opinions) is a commandment similar to the din deroisa of תרומות ומעשרותin the olden days.

Anything not falling under the realm of those two origins, is not a chiyuv.
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Offline ChAiM'l

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Re: Re: The truth about children - Warning: Controversial
« Reply #219 on: January 06, 2013, 02:28:01 PM »
IMHO if that's how you feel then you should have sent it via PM
+1