Author Topic: The truth about children - Warning: Controversial  (Read 119612 times)

Offline Ergel

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Re: The truth about children - Warning: Controversial
« Reply #220 on: January 06, 2013, 02:35:10 PM »
Ergel is feeling stressed
-1, just grossed out. Although I do agree that the response to your response was unwarranted
Life isn't about checking the boxes. Nobody cares.

Offline elikay

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Re: The truth about children - Warning: Controversial
« Reply #221 on: January 06, 2013, 02:59:09 PM »
Any way to ignore threads in tapatalk?

Offline how

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Re: The truth about children - Warning: Controversial
« Reply #222 on: January 06, 2013, 03:05:57 PM »
Any way to ignore threads in tapatalk?
+1

Offline Galitzyaner

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What do you call "the community promoting" something?

There are no bumper stickers in these communities reading "be religious: make more babies" or anyting to that effect.
ROFL
I got the impression from some of the posts that certain sect (hope that is the right word) it was expected to marry young and have children right away. Am I reading this wrong?
No
If this same pressure was exerted to have a lot (10+ to pick a number) of children

No pressure at all, just a mitzvah  ;)

First of all, halacha doesnt start and end in the shulchan aruch, in order to understand the Shu"a we must look back at his sources all the way through to the torah.

Now, do you really thing the practical obligation to wake up before the neitz, is the same as the obligation to make a bris milah?

Now, Beis din are kofe to be mekayim anything that one is absolutely required to do. This is because it is their responsibility to ensure one complies with all obligations. Therefore, they don't have to wake people up at alois, since that is not an absolute requirement, but are koife people to have a bris milan.

Requirements can have 2 origins - deoriasa and derbanan. In the first, G-D directly commands a specific action, and we know so either because it is written in the torah, or by masoires (Halacha lemoshe msinayi, etc). The second origin is derbanan. Chazal had the power to make commandments similar to Gd. For example, the requirement to take תרומות ומעשרות bezman haze (according to some opinions) is a commandment similar to the din deroisa of תרומות ומעשרותin the olden days.

Anything not falling under the realm of those two origins, is not a chiyuv.
I ask you again, do you have a source that subscribes any less importance to marrying before (or starting at least at) 20 then any other halacha in Shu"a?

Any posek?  Any sefer? Any one?
Where do you get that there is any less of a chiyuv (because beis din is not כופין)? 
מקור please.

The רמ"א specifically here writes that  בזמה"ז נהגו שלא לכוף ע"ז (FYI the ערוה"ש disagrees in principle), to the contrary everywhere else by most other halachos it's usually not even mentioned whether כופין or not, and the נושאי כלים specifically say the reason(s) why in this instance בי"ד אין כופין (perhaps to show that the practical obligation stays the same?), yet at the same time they don't seem to (at all) minimize the practical obligation - the chiyuv..

(waking up at עלוה"ש is only a
mitzvah מן המובחר so no kidding..)
« Last Edit: January 06, 2013, 03:41:51 PM by Galitzyaner »

Online PlatinumGuy

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Re: The truth about children - Warning: Controversial
« Reply #224 on: January 06, 2013, 03:53:36 PM »
Let's just get this straight. You believe someone without a bris & someone who got maried at 21 are both equally wrong?
״וזה כלל גדול: שישנא אדם כל דבר שקר. וכל מה שיוסיף שנאה לדרכי השקר – יוסיף אהבה לתורה.״ - אורחות צדיקים

Offline Galitzyaner

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Re: Re: The truth about children - Warning: Controversial
« Reply #225 on: January 06, 2013, 04:07:19 PM »
Let's just get this straight. You believe someone without a bris & someone who got maried at 21 are both equally wrong?
No
Do you believe s/o who speaks LH is the same as s/o w/o a bris?
C'mon.
Does that give anyone a hetter to speak LH, or make it any less severe..
(yes, I know LH is a מדאורייתא, however the point remains the same)

And BTW, 20 obviously doesn't mean the deadline to in practice already be  married, it obviously means the deadline to at least start being מתעסק in שידוכים etc.

Offline meshugener

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Re: The truth about children - Warning: Controversial
« Reply #226 on: January 06, 2013, 04:15:25 PM »
@HelpMe
Even though there's such a concept, having 15 children is definitly not normal.
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Offline Galitzyaner

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Re: Re: The truth about children - Warning: Controversial
« Reply #227 on: January 06, 2013, 04:17:19 PM »
@HelpMe
Even though there's such a concept, having 15 children is definitly not normal.
You probably mean to say "not the norm"..
« Last Edit: January 06, 2013, 04:20:24 PM by Galitzyaner »

Offline meshugener

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Re: Re: The truth about children - Warning: Controversial
« Reply #228 on: January 06, 2013, 04:30:08 PM »
You probably mean to say "not the norm"..
No, I meant what I said.
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Offline yare

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Re: The truth about children - Warning: Controversial
« Reply #229 on: January 06, 2013, 04:35:44 PM »
I have no medical or psychological training just common sense.  ;)
if parents can support and raise 15 kids what's not right about that?              you may have been inculcated with the american doctrine that 2 kids and a dog are what a family is supposed to look like but it's certainly not common sense. 

Offline HelpMe

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Re: The truth about children - Warning: Controversial
« Reply #230 on: January 06, 2013, 04:49:14 PM »
if parents can support and raise 15 kids what's not right about that?
I have no problem if a couple decides to have 10 kids. I do have a problem if the reason is pressure (or whatever you want to call it) from an outside source.

you may have been inculcated with the american doctrine that 2 kids and a dog are what a family is supposed to look like but it's certainly not common sense.
I think you have me confused with someone else.  :)
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Offline Galitzyaner

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Re: Re: Re: The truth about children - Warning: Controversial
« Reply #231 on: January 06, 2013, 04:56:36 PM »
No, I meant what I said.
I was trying to be מלמד זכות.  Oh well, I guess you pick and choose what part of the religion you think is "normal"..

Offline HelpMe

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No pressure at all, just a mitzvah  ;)
I think you would agree if someone believes this then there is nothing I or anyone else could say that would make a difference.

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Offline HelpMe

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Re: Re: Re: The truth about children - Warning: Controversial
« Reply #233 on: January 06, 2013, 04:59:43 PM »
Oh well, I guess you pick and choose what part of the religion you think is "normal"..
This is the big problem with all religions. Let’s pick on my religion. Should I follow blindly everything the Pope says even if I believe it to be wrong?
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Offline Galitzyaner

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I think you would agree if someone believes this then there is nothing I or anyone else could say that would make a difference.
You? No chance (no offense intended).
Their Rabbi?  Big chance  :)

Online jj1000

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Re: The truth about children - Warning: Controversial
« Reply #235 on: January 06, 2013, 05:03:10 PM »
This is the big problem with all religions. Let’s pick on my religion. Should I follow blindly everything the Pope says even if I believe it to be wrong?
You don't?
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Offline HelpMe

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Their Rabbi?  Big chance  :)
But can’t two Rabbis’ give two different opinions? Now what do you do.
"Elvis Has Left The Building"

Offline HelpMe

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Re: The truth about children - Warning: Controversial
« Reply #237 on: January 06, 2013, 05:24:35 PM »
You don't?
If you are asking if I follow blindly then the answer is, no.
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Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: The truth about children - Warning: Controversial
« Reply #238 on: January 06, 2013, 05:27:13 PM »
So now the discussion is about following religion. On DDF its a topic for discussion :o?

Offline Achas Veachas

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Re: The truth about children - Warning: Controversial
« Reply #239 on: January 06, 2013, 05:53:49 PM »
I don't know if you noticed but almost any topic in DDF eventually turns to religion :))