Author Topic: The truth about children - Warning: Controversial  (Read 119564 times)

Offline yehuda S

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Re: The truth about children - Warning: Controversial
« Reply #420 on: September 03, 2013, 11:51:51 AM »
There are plenty of people who work like a dog their whole lives and still don't have enough to support their families.

Miles and Points? Lets say 20k. For some that may cover 2 of their kids tuition.

It sounds like a pretty naive statement.

Why naive? 20 k for some side work? That is pretty nice. I know when I share these great deals and ways to collect points with family/friends they often laugh at me or dismiss it. Meanwhile they are struggling.

Why are people so dismissive of opportunities to help themselves? You see it everywhere. Especially when people complain about financial difficulties they never want to hear advice. They just want sympathy.
Work is what you do between vacations.

Offline zale

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Re: The truth about children - Warning: Controversial
« Reply #421 on: September 03, 2013, 12:50:12 PM »
They don't tell them anything. There's just no education whatsoever in the system for how to date, how to deal with a wife, with kids, etc, etc.
So everything is just secondhand misinfo.

A marriage does not come with a user's manual. And you can't Google the instructions either.

Every marriage is a world of its own, and what works for one marriage might not work for another.

Now, there are some general facts that are handy to know in advance, but to an unmarried individual, these facts go into one ear and out the other. (Imagine reading a setup manual for a treadmill when you don't yet own one. The manual works best when you have the treadmill in front of you, and you work side by side with the manual.) Therefore, the best time to get educated about how to deal with your spouse and your children is when you actually have a spouse and children. The classes on these things should be AFTER one is married.

In addition, there should be someone you trust and respect with all your heart and soul that you can talk to about marriage issues. After all, every issue requires its own unique remedy.

There are far too many pathetic idiots who believe that after being disrespectful and unsympathetic to their wife for an entire week they can bring home flowers on Friday and everything will suddenly sort itself out. First, not every woman likes flowers on a weekly basis. Second, flowers will not remedy the problem of you being an idiot and not helping around the house.




Offline skyguy918

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Re: The truth about children - Warning: Controversial
« Reply #422 on: September 03, 2013, 01:08:29 PM »
A marriage does not come with a user's manual. And you can't Google the instructions either.

Every marriage is a world of its own, and what works for one marriage might not work for another.

Now, there are some general facts that are handy to know in advance, but to an unmarried individual, these facts go into one ear and out the other. (Imagine reading a setup manual for a treadmill when you don't yet own one. The manual works best when you have the treadmill in front of you, and you work side by side with the manual.) Therefore, the best time to get educated about how to deal with your spouse and your children is when you actually have a spouse and children. The classes on these things should be AFTER one is married.

In addition, there should be someone you trust and respect with all your heart and soul that you can talk to about marriage issues. After all, every issue requires its own unique remedy.

There are far too many pathetic idiots who believe that after being disrespectful and unsympathetic to their wife for an entire week they can bring home flowers on Friday and everything will suddenly sort itself out. First, not every woman likes flowers on a weekly basis. Second, flowers will not remedy the problem of you being an idiot and not helping around the house.

Mostly +1, but I don't think education is useless in the 'before' stage. Less useful than during, but not useless.

Offline Achas Veachas

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Re: The truth about children - Warning: Controversial
« Reply #423 on: September 03, 2013, 01:12:04 PM »
Mostly +1, but I don't think education is useless in the 'before' stage. Less useful than during, but not useless.
+1
I know of a few Chosson and Kallah teachers who offer "followup" classes a month or 2 after the wedding.

Offline CountValentine

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Re: The truth about children - Warning: Controversial
« Reply #424 on: September 03, 2013, 01:24:56 PM »
The manual works best when you have the treadmill in front of you, and you work side by side with the manual.) Therefore, the best time to get educated about how to deal with your spouse and your children is when you actually have a spouse and children. The classes on these things should be AFTER one is married.
Well said!
I told my daughter to buy a car first then I will teach her how to drive.
I told my son to buy the gun first then I will teach him to shoot.
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Offline Achas Veachas

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Re: The truth about children - Warning: Controversial
« Reply #425 on: September 03, 2013, 01:26:56 PM »
Well said!
I told my daughter to buy a car first then I will teach her how to drive.
I told my son to buy the gun first then I will teach him to shoot.
As usual hard to tell if you're serious or not :P

But the car is a great analogy. When I got my license my driving instructor told me "Now is time for you to START learning how to drive"...
« Last Edit: September 03, 2013, 01:47:42 PM by Achas Veachas »

Offline yehuda S

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Re: The truth about children - Warning: Controversial
« Reply #426 on: September 03, 2013, 01:31:09 PM »
As usual hard to tell if you're serious or not :P
Hard to tell?
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Offline Dan

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Re: The truth about children - Warning: Controversial
« Reply #427 on: September 03, 2013, 01:35:24 PM »
A marriage does not come with a user's manual. And you can't Google the instructions either.

Every marriage is a world of its own, and what works for one marriage might not work for another.

Now, there are some general facts that are handy to know in advance, but to an unmarried individual, these facts go into one ear and out the other. (Imagine reading a setup manual for a treadmill when you don't yet own one. The manual works best when you have the treadmill in front of you, and you work side by side with the manual.) Therefore, the best time to get educated about how to deal with your spouse and your children is when you actually have a spouse and children. The classes on these things should be AFTER one is married.

In addition, there should be someone you trust and respect with all your heart and soul that you can talk to about marriage issues. After all, every issue requires its own unique remedy.

There are far too many pathetic idiots who believe that after being disrespectful and unsympathetic to their wife for an entire week they can bring home flowers on Friday and everything will suddenly sort itself out. First, not every woman likes flowers on a weekly basis. Second, flowers will not remedy the problem of you being an idiot and not helping around the house.
You're talking about bochurim who have spent years in yeshiva.  Now maybe this is because I have 5 brothers and no sisters, but I never had a real conversation with a girl before I started dating.

To be told for 23 years to stay away from the other sex and then be thrown into that is daunting.  I can't understand how in 8 years of yeshiva they never managed to cover that once.

Then again I don't understand how yeshivas putting out pulpit rabbis or shluchim don't offer a class in public speaking and writing.  These are basic skills that are sorely lacking.
Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.

Offline CountValentine

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Re: The truth about children - Warning: Controversial
« Reply #428 on: September 03, 2013, 02:11:24 PM »
Now maybe this is because I have 5 brothers and no sisters, but I never had a real conversation with a girl before I started dating.
Was this your choice, not allowed or the situation never presented itself?
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Offline Dan

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Re: The truth about children - Warning: Controversial
« Reply #429 on: September 03, 2013, 02:35:26 PM »
Was this your choice, not allowed or the situation never presented itself?
It would be grounds for expulsion from yeshiva.
Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.

Offline sky121

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Re: The truth about children - Warning: Controversial
« Reply #430 on: September 03, 2013, 02:59:58 PM »
Why naive? 20 k for some side work? That is pretty nice. I know when I share these great deals and ways to collect points with family/friends they often laugh at me or dismiss it. Meanwhile they are struggling.

Why are people so dismissive of opportunities to help themselves? You see it everywhere. Especially when people complain about financial difficulties they never want to hear advice. They just want sympathy.

Yes there are many people who don't want to help themselves. There are those that complain about lack of funds and don't try working harder or don't work at all. I'm not talking about those people. There are plenty of people that work hard, that appreciate sound advice, that do what they can to the best of their ability and still lack finances to support their family fully.
"Not all who wander are lost"

Offline elikay

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Re: The truth about children - Warning: Controversial
« Reply #431 on: September 03, 2013, 03:06:18 PM »
Quote from: yehuda S link=topic=23873.msg1#msg1 date=1378222412
Maybe they are digging in the wrong place.
[/quote

See kiddushin 80a (CMIIW) says something to the effect of the following : לעולם יתפלל אדם למי שה עושר שלו. שאין לך אומנות שאין בה עניות ועשירות. It is clear that all you do is a chiyuv hishtadlus and hashem is the one who provides. And for the record, I know people who have one child and work long hours who unfortunately cannot make ends meet.

Offline zale

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Re: The truth about children - Warning: Controversial
« Reply #432 on: September 03, 2013, 03:12:14 PM »
You're talking about bochurim who have spent years in yeshiva.  Now maybe this is because I have 5 brothers and no sisters, but I never had a real conversation with a girl before I started dating.

To be told for 23 years to stay away from the other sex and then be thrown into that is daunting.  I can't understand how in 8 years of yeshiva they never managed to cover that once.

Then again I don't understand how yeshivas putting out pulpit rabbis or shluchim don't offer a class in public speaking and writing.  These are basic skills that are sorely lacking.

As if kids that come out of co-ed high schools have much better marriages.

What exactly do those kids know about talking to girls that a Bochur does not? Perhaps they are less intimidated of the girls they grew up with in their own class, but if they see a pretty girl in a bar that they have never met before they are likely to be just as intimidated.

Offline sky121

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Re: The truth about children - Warning: Controversial
« Reply #433 on: September 03, 2013, 03:23:29 PM »
I don't think it would be so bad to teach boys the art of chivalry. Girls like to be treated nicely. And if you teach them things like that at a young age it won't be so forced (or non existent ) when they are older.

I think young people today need to be taught the art of communication. It seems to be lacking in our society now a days. And missing from our teachings in our school systems.  It seems in many schools learning how to talk about your feelings is focused on in Nursery and not a year after. And learning to talk with others. And to work things out. This are all things that can be focused on starting at a very young age.

Unfortunately a lot of things that would help many marriages are taught in the house.  Learning to not be selfish. Learning to help others. Learning to compromise.  Being a mentsch . Being happy with what you have. Not being spoiled. Things parents need to be teaching kids from the very beginning.


 
"Not all who wander are lost"

Offline sky121

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Re: The truth about children - Warning: Controversial
« Reply #434 on: September 03, 2013, 03:27:24 PM »
As if kids that come out of co-ed high schools have much better marriages.

What exactly do those kids know about talking to girls that a Bochur does not? Perhaps they are less intimidated of the girls they grew up with in their own class, but if they see a pretty girl in a bar that they have never met before they are likely to be just as intimidated.

I'm not saying one is less intimidated than the other but I've worked in quite a number of schools ranging from Yeshivish to Mizrachi to Conservative and one thing I've noticed is the less "religious" you got the more articulate the kids got, the more comfortable they were talking to adults and knowing how to make conversation.  They also tend to have nicer manners when dealing with others.  I can't imagine that doesn't help with dating and life in general.
"Not all who wander are lost"

Offline CountValentine

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Re: The truth about children - Warning: Controversial
« Reply #435 on: September 03, 2013, 03:28:13 PM »
Unfortunately a lot of things that would help many marriages are taught in the house.  Learning to not be selfish. Learning to help others. Learning to compromise.  Being a mentsch . Being happy with what you have. Not being spoiled. Things parents need to be teaching kids from the very beginning.
Can I get an AMEN!
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Offline yuneeq

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Re: The truth about children - Warning: Controversial
« Reply #436 on: September 03, 2013, 03:28:50 PM »
Unfortunately a lot of things that would help many marriages are taught in the house.  Learning to not be selfish. Learning to help others. Learning to compromise.  Being a mentsch . Being happy with what you have. Not being spoiled. Things parents need to be teaching kids from the very beginning.

Next thread:
The Truth About Parents - WARNING... ;)
Visibly Jewish

Offline CountValentine

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Re: The truth about children - Warning: Controversial
« Reply #437 on: September 03, 2013, 03:29:45 PM »
Next thread:
The Truth About Parents - WARNING... ;)
Please start one.
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Offline SamKey

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Re: The truth about children - Warning: Controversial
« Reply #438 on: September 03, 2013, 03:36:28 PM »
It would be grounds for expulsion from yeshiva.
is that the only reason?

Offline zale

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Re: The truth about children - Warning: Controversial
« Reply #439 on: September 03, 2013, 03:43:18 PM »
I'm not saying one is less intimidated than the other but I've worked in quite a number of schools ranging from Yeshivish to Mizrachi to Conservative and one thing I've noticed is the less "religious" you got the more articulate the kids got, the more comfortable they were talking to adults and knowing how to make conversation.  They also tend to have nicer manners when dealing with others.  I can't imagine that doesn't help with dating and life in general.

I can definitely relate to what you are saying, as I have had the same experience. However, I found respectlful behavior to be limited to respect for adults, and particularly adults whom they don't know well (i.e. a tutor etc.). Around their parents an friends it's a completely different story.