Are we giving our children the means to support themselves?

[yehuda S]

Nor do you. You could instead give your kids the means to support themselves. Because if your kids are putting you in a place where you have to "worry that much" to support them, you probably shouldn't be.

This topic should get its own thread. Are we giving our children the means to support themselves?

Our boys and girls are some of the brightest people in the world. Each generation should be producing an entire crop of doctors, scientists, engineers. They should be in labs curing cancer right now. Instead people are finding themselves married with children and wondering if sales is a good career path.

[churnbabychurn]

This topic should get its own thread. Are we giving our children the means to support themselves?

Our boys and girls are some of the brightest people in the world. Each generation should be producing an entire crop of doctors, scientists, engineers. They should be in labs curing cancer right now. Instead people are finding themselves married with children and wondering if sales is a good career path.

People do have other values ya know, so what if many dont have a bulletproof parnasa,. Most are still happy, even with many kids, they have what some lack: The correct prospective, Bitachon, and the realization that it wont matter if you were a dentist or an insurance salesman in 50 years.

[Ergel]

Unless you were unable to provide for your kids and as a result they are messed up. Or you were matil yourself on the tzibbut because you couldn't meet you're responsibilities

[churnbabychurn]

Unless you were unable to provide for your kids and as a result they are messed up. Or you were matil yourself on the tzibbut because you couldn't meet you're responsibilities

One is only obligated to try as hard as they can to provide. The rest is up to g-d.
Many dont feel it necessary to start worrying about providing for a future family while still a teen. (No reason to waste 7 years and hundreds of G's on med school for example.)

[sky121]

People do have other values ya know, so what if many dont have a bulletproof parnasa,. Most are still happy, even with many kids, they have what some lack: The correct prospective, Bitachon, and the realization that it wont matter if you were a dentist or an insurance salesman in 50 years.

It's more that it's just chaval many times when you see young people who've been marries a couple years, starting to realize they wish they had something in their hands in terms of Parnassah.


I have a friend whose father is a doctor and all his kids were the typical learning yeshivish guys and now he asks his father all the time why he didn't encourage him to get a degree etc. when he was younger.

And I talk to a lot of guys who wish they had taken the time when they were young to get a degree.


On the same note a friend of mine took a few years to go to school part time and get his degree in accounting and then went back to Yeshiva full time and when it came to shidduchim had to deal with MANY responses of girls saying no "because he went to school" - and this was a really good guy, a really good learner.

It's hard in our society with social pressures. Even guys who might like to do something feel they can't sometimes.

[churnbabychurn]

It's more that it's just chaval many times when you see young people who've been marries a couple years, starting to realize they wish they had something in their hands in terms of Parnassah.


I have a friend whose father is a doctor and all his kids were the typical learning yeshivish guys and now he asks his father all the time why he didn't encourage him to get a degree etc. when he was younger.

And I talk to a lot of guys who wish they had taken the time when they were young to get a degree.


On the same note a friend of mine took a few years to go to school part time and get his degree in accounting and then went back to Yeshiva full time and when it came to shidduchim had to deal with MANY responses of girls saying no "because he went to school" - and this was a really good guy, a really good learner.

It's hard in our society with social pressures. Even guys who might like to do something feel they can't sometimes.

Is the concept of not worrying about future worries hard to comprehend?
You have a 18 year old concerned with how he will marry of his kids. A) Who said he'l find a shidduch B who said he'l have kids,C who said his shver wont be bill gates D) who said he wont make a lucky business deal E who said his daughters wont marry dentists etc etc
"Dy letzorah beshatah"
Learning torah is a sure investment for a 18 yo bochur. He'l drey around after learning a few years and hope for the best.

[meshugener]

Nonsense.
98% A, B, C, D and E won't materialize.

[churnbabychurn]

Nonsense.
98% A, B, C, D and E won't materialize.

and 85% manage fine without ABCD or 7 years in College

[Ergel]

And 83% of statistics are made up.

[Achas Veachas]

And 83% of statistics are made up.

Sure about that? I heard 86.346875%

[yehuda S]

Is the concept of not worrying about future worries hard to comprehend?
You have a 18 year old concerned with how he will marry of his kids. A) Who said he'l find a shidduch B who said he'l have kids,C who said his shver wont be bill gates D) who said he wont make a lucky business deal E who said his daughters wont marry dentists etc etc
"Dy letzorah beshatah"
Learning torah is a sure investment for a 18 yo bochur. He'l drey around after learning a few years and hope for the best.

Is this for real? Who was arguing that our whole childhood is a preparation for parenthood? I guess none of that is necessary because A. Who said you'll get married? B. who said you'll have kids? C. Who said your wife won't take care of everything for you while you sit in beis M and learn 19 hours a day?

As far as a Bill Gates shver, nothing costs more than parental support. With the possible exception of in-law support.

[sky121]

and 85% manage fine without ABCD or 7 years in College

It's not about managing fine. Nor is it about spending 7 years in college. It's more about the mentality. And teaching kids about reality and life. Forget kids. Forget a wife. Don't you want to raise your kids to be self sufficient people?

[jj1000]

Just saw this don't know if it has relevance.



Uploaded with ImageShack.us

[churnbabychurn]

It's not about managing fine. Nor is it about spending 7 years in college. It's more about the mentality. And teaching kids about reality and life. Forget kids. Forget a wife. Don't you want to raise your kids to be self sufficient people?

The philosophy that I was raised with is that every thing in life is about balancing between two worlds. I would like to impart on my children that its important to be a responsible mentch, to take care of their wives and children both emotionally and financially, but the emphasis and most important thing in their life is not necessarily having a bullet proof parnassah and a life of luxury and travel without cranky kids.
Its all a matter of perspective. Whats life all about?

[sky121]

The philosophy that I was raised with is that every thing in life is about balancing between two worlds. I would like to impart on my children that its important to be a responsible mentch, to take care of their wives and children both emotionally and financially, but the emphasis and most important thing in their life is not necessarily having a bullet proof parnassah and a life of luxury and travel without cranky kids.
Its all a matter of perspective. Whats life all about?

I agree. Unfortunately I  don't believe most people have that balanced out too well.

[moko]

They should be in labs curing cancer right now.

I guess i missed my calling
sleazy slumlord just sounded to good

[AJK]

And 83% of statistics are made up.

Including that one.

[whacked1]

i am not getting a few things here; 1) i have a lot of friends that tell me that "they wish" they wouldve gone to college for some educational backing, the truth is (of course NOT ALL CASES) lots of people use the "yeshivish" answer due their laziness!! So even if it would be 100% a given in the yeshivish world, lots of guys wouldnt go, they like to pretend 6 yrs down the road that the reason for the them not going is yeshivish!!! 2) If a person is good at sales than that is one of the most secure professions a person could have with unlimited possible commission (unlike drs that cap out)!!!! Why is it being spoken about like it is the worst job?!?

[meshugener]

i am not getting a few things here; 1) i have a lot of friends that tell me that "they wish" they wouldve gone to college for some educational backing, the truth is (of course NOT ALL CASES) lots of people use the "yeshivish" answer due their laziness!! So even if it would be 100% a given in the yeshivish world, lots of guys wouldnt go, they like to pretend 6 yrs down the road that the reason for the them not going is yeshivish!!! 2) If a person is good at sales than that is one of the most secure professions a person could have with unlimited possible commission (unlike drs that cap out)!!!! Why is it being spoken about like it is the worst job?!?

+1

[Dan]

2) If a person is good at sales than that is one of the most secure professions a person could have with unlimited possible commission (unlike drs that cap out)!!!! Why is it being spoken about like it is the worst job?!?

Would you rather have a job where you might make anywhere between $100 and $1MM or one that will always pay a steady $200K-$400K?
Sales isn't the worst job, it's just not for everyone.