Are we giving our children the means to support themselves?

[whacked1]

Would you rather have a job where you might make anywhere between $100 and $1MM or one that will always pay a steady $300K?

would you rather have a job that pays 100-1m with 0debt or steady 300 (if you land that good job) with 300k debt??? of course the dr is a better more consistent job, but sales isnt that bad for the right person!!

[churnbabychurn]

The equation is how much hishtadlus is necessary vs bitachon, (assuming that you believe that g-d is the provider).
In the yeshivish circles the common hashkafa is that its not necessary to waste the most productive "growing" years for the concern of having a relatively secure source of parnassah in the future. 
Therefore most do not go to 7 year collages.
The facts are that a vast majority manage without the whole education thing when it comes time to make a buck, some get a fast degree later after marriage etc.
 
[Im not even discussing the danger of the current college culture and the poisonous views that many courses teach]

[Dan]

would you rather have a job that pays 100-1m with 0debt or steady 300 (if you land that good job) with 300k debt??? of course the dr is a better more consistent job, but sales isnt that bad for the right person!!

300k debt is very manageable with a $300K annual salary.

Exactly how many struggling doctors in the USA do you know?
Medicine is not my thing, but you'd be a fool not to pick the steady option.

[moko]

Would you rather have a job where you might make anywhere between $100 and $1MM or one that will always pay a steady $200K-$400K?
Sales isn't the worst job, it's just not for everyone.

would you rather have a job that pays 100-1m with 0debt or steady 300 (if you land that good job) with 300k debt??? of course the dr is a better more consistent job, but sales isnt that bad for the right person!!

who woulda thought 

[whacked1]

300k debt is very manageable with a $300K annual salary.

Exactly how many struggling doctors in the USA do you know?
Medicine is not my thing, but you'd be a fool not to pick the steady option.

medicine is not most peoples' thing, or else it wouldnt be paying 300k!! Dont forget the schooling which is not piece of cake!!!

[Dan]

The equation is how much hishtadlus is necessary vs bitachon, (assuming that you believe that g-d is the provider).
In the yeshivish circles the common hashkafa is that its not necessary to waste the most productive "growing" years for the concern of having a relatively secure source of parnassah in the future. 
Therefore most do not go to 7 year collages.
The facts are that a vast majority manage without the whole education thing when it comes time to make a buck, some get a fast degree later after marriage etc.
 
[Im not even discussing the danger of the current college culture and the poisonous views that many courses teach]

Fact of the matter is that you can get into Med School, Law School, or Business school with a yeshiva degree and possibly some extra courses.
If you can't make it without a degree what's the excuse not to try to go down that route instead of living meagerly off whatever entitlement programs you can scrap by with?

You can have bitachon from today until tomorrow, but without making a keli what have you done to draw down Gds blessings?

[churnbabychurn]

Fact of the matter is that you can get into Med School, Law School, or Business school with a yeshiva degree and possibly some extra courses.
If you can't make it without a degree what's the excuse not to try to go down that route instead of living meagerly off whatever entitlement programs you can scrap by with?

Your implying that there is something wrong with living meagerly?

[elikay]

This topic should get its own thread. Are we giving our children the means to support themselves?

Our boys and girls are some of the brightest people in the world. Each generation should be producing an entire crop of doctors, scientists, engineers. They should be in labs curing cancer right now. Instead people are finding themselves married with children and wondering if sales is a good career path.

Cheer up!

[churnbabychurn]

My whole point (going back a few posts), is that some choose not to live the most comfortable life style because they have other priorities.

[Dan]

Your implying that there is something wrong with living meagerly?

Yes, there is something seriously wrong with living a life off of public charity.  It should be something to be embarrassed of, not something to be proud of.

I'm not saying everyone should be rich (though with our brains we can be and then use that money to support worthy causes), but once upon a time having to live off charity/public assistance and not being able to provide for your own family was a point of shame.

[sky121]

Your implying that there is something wrong with living meagerly?

Living meagerly is fine. Living off the government and being "happy" with that is not, IMHO.

[sky121]

Going back to what I said before, it's the whole mindset that is off.

 There is nothing wrong with those that don't want to go to college even.  It's having a plan and WANTING to be able to have the means to provide for yourself so that you don't have to take from others.   It's teaching kids to save. It's teaching kids to be responsible. To know there is self worth in being able to provide.

[yehuda S]

Fact of the matter is that you can get into Med School, Law School, or Business school with a yeshiva degree and possibly some extra courses.

This varies tremendously based on which elementary/high school/ yeshiva you attended. Its very hard to make up for a lousy education when you are 25 Which is probably about the age many find themselves looking at their empty cupboards with an uncomfortable realization that they have no skills with which to go out and bring in 60/70 k a year.

A frum family with 6 kids cannot scrape by without a 'meager' 120 k a year.

[yehuda S]

Even if you can get into school many will find themselves without the knowledge necessary to maintain good grades.

[Dan]

I'm one of 6 boys.  3 of us are in our 20s now and the 3 of us went through the Chabad system for 8 years or so and received smicha.  Chabad is of course against going to college due to the pritzus that goes on there and so we don't have "real" undergrad educations.

I went onto graduate business school and got my MBA with a 3.98 GPA while helping to pay my way by tutoring other students who had gone to a real college.  2 of my younger brothers will going to grad school next year (1 in an ivy league law school and the other in med school).

Life is what you make of it...if you toil you will succeed.

[AJK]

I can only imagine the ivy leaguer () and the med schools student introducing themselves as the brother of Dansdeals, you know, the one jewish deals blog? Yeah him.

[yehuda S]

The scary part of government assistance it's designed to keep you dependent. People can go on a couple of programs and reason that it's just for a short while but after a couple of years they'll find that getting a job means losing the programs and the programs were providing so much more than the starting salary that they can't bridge the gap.

It wouldn't be worth going off the program.

Ideally, the most welfare should be given to people who take personal loans to attend school. This would allow people to get degrees and eventually pay back into the system with the taxes on their high salaries.

[Dan]

Of course.  They don't give away money for nothing, they want your everlasting vote and dependence.

[jj1000]

I can only imagine the ivy leaguer () and the med schools student introducing themselves as the brother of Dansdeals, you know, the one jewish deals blog? Yeah him.

My other son is a doctor

[AJK]

Such nachas!