When Taanis (Esther) starts when In-Flight, When is ALOS HaShachar

[Achas Veachas]

Well, guess what, the Alter Rebbe was discussing people whose feet are on the ground, because (drumroll...) planes weren't invented yet.
I heard from several Chabad Rabbonim that it is determined by what can be seen at sea level.

At sea level or on the ground? and if the area you are flying over is above sea level?

[PlatinumGuy]

I heard from several Chabad Rabbonim that it is determined by what can be seen at sea level.

Wasnt Admor Hazken Chabad?

https://sites.google.com/site/zmanimadmorhazaken/hod/hgdrwthlktywt

IR Eliezer Melamed quoted שׁוֹ"ע הרב and R Moshe Feinstein that hold everything is measured at +800m like J'lem, whereas R Isser Zalman holds everything is determined by sea level. However I can't see it in the teshuva he mentions. Anyone know what we pasken like?

[dirah]

At sea level or on the ground? and if the area you are flying over is above sea level?

Wasnt Admor Hazken Chabad?
https://sites.google.com/site/zmanimadmorhazaken/hod/hgdrwthlktywt
IR Eliezer Melamed quoted שׁוֹ"ע הרב and R Moshe Feinstein that hold everything is measured at +800m like J'lem, whereas R Isser Zalman holds everything is determined by sea level. However I can't see it in the teshuva he mentions. Anyone know what we pasken like?

Yes, the Alter Rebbe holds that it depends on elevation.
But that doesn't refer to your personal elevation (i.e. airplane, skyscraper), but the elevation of the earth's surface where you are.
When flying across water, this would be sea-level.
When flying over land, you would need to calculate elevation.

[PlatinumGuy]

Yes, the Alter Rebbe holds that it depends on elevation.
But that doesn't refer to your personal elevation (i.e. airplane, skyscraper), but the elevation of the earth's surface where you are.
When flying across water, this would be sea-level.
When flying over land, you would need to calculate elevation.

Ah, I thought you were referring to sea level everywhere. Planes do fly over land, so that would have to be factored anyway.

[dirah]

Ah, I thought you were referring to sea level everywhere. Planes do fly over land, so that would have to be factored anyway.

The OP was referring to TLV-JFK, I was thinking in that context, but yes, I meant surface level.

[moko]

Planes are very dehydrating. Not sure one should fast on a flight.

im assuming you werent saying a psak, but theres a halcha that even when traveling and you dont feel well, you must fast

Without turning this into a haachic forum, the Kitzur Shulchan Oruch says while if you arent feeling well at all you can break this fast, especially because its kadima, BUT, in simin 141, sif 2, the last 2 lines are "Even if someone is going on the road and its hard for him to fast, he must fast."

Hard != unwell

And (unless you're chabad) we don't pasken from the KSHU"A


http://he.wikisource.org/wiki/שולחן_ערוך_אורח_חיים_תרפו

ותענית זו אינו חובה, לכן יש להקל בו לעת הצורך, כגון מעוברות או מיניקות או חולה שאין בו סכנה.

Thanks, i didnt know that there was a dispute amongst the poskim

from the mb it sounds like regular travelers must fast but if u are sick then u are no diff. than anyone else. if traveling dehydrates you to the extent u re sick then u dont fast (i dont think the mb was refferin to air travel)
ps. dont forget about making it up

[PlatinumGuy]

from the mb it sounds like regular travelers must fast but if u are sick then u are no diff. than anyone else. if traveling dehydrates you to the extent u re sick then u dont fast (i dont think the mb was refferin to air travel)
ps. dont forget about making it up

I mentioned dehydration, it has absolutely nothing in similar with traveling on a horse. The same issue would be if the plane is standing still for 12 hours.  I don't know what the MB has to do with this.

[moko]

I mentioned dehydration, it has absolutely nothing in similar with traveling on a horse. The same issue would be if the plane is standing still for 12 hours.  I don't know what the MB has to do with this.

im pretty sure  everything i said as in agreement with that (if i understand u correctly)

[PlatinumGuy]

im pretty sure  everything i said as in agreement with that (if i understand u correctly)

I don't think you're disagreeing with me, just don't think the MB is relevant to this case.

[jmansour]

http://chaitables.com/cgi-bin/chai.exe/?from=1&frommonth=2&fromday=20&fromyear=2013&fromhour=21&fromminute=10&fromdst=&to=1&tomonth=2&today=21&toyear=2013&tohour=14&tominute=45&todst=&from_timezone=-200&24hr=

Dan im on VX 260, i was thinking it gets dark 2 hours in and I can break it.
Any idea if im correct?

[Dan]

http://chaitables.com/chai_air_eng.php?look=20130221

[Reb Moshe]

I don't think you're disagreeing with me, just don't think the MB is relevant to this case.

Baruch HaShem I made it through the fast...... Just barely!!