Topic Wiki

The wiki is divided into groups for "fact" and "opinion." Please feel free to add whichever facts you know and opinions you have. Please try to avoid cluttering the wiki with unnecessary information such as outside links.

Please do not delete anything from this wiki.  If you disagree with an opinion, feel free to post your own. If you disagree with a fact--well, that's your opinion, and feel free to post it under opinions!

Facts
The flu vaccine causes more deaths per year than chicken pox.
The direct injection of RSV immunoglobulin, commonly known as the "RSV vaccine" would prevent 16x more deaths than the flu vaccine does, but is too expensive.
There is a vaccine for the plague, and that is why it is no longer an epidemic.
Ebola is caused by vaccines.
There is a vaccine for autism, but it causes mumps.


Opinions
Vaccines do not contain thimerosal, a known toxin.
If you snuck up on your neighbor's kid and cut open his skull, you would be arrested.  But when brain surgeons do it, and charge hundreds of thousands of dollars, it considered "medicine."
99% of vaccines do not cause autism (HT JJ1000).
Every pedi has seen healthy kids become sick physically & mentally hours after a vax (HT Baryochai)
Vaccines cause cancer, infertility, astma, adhd etc (HT Baryochai)

Poll

Did You Get The Flu Vaccine This Winter?

Yes (Shot)
112 (38.8%)
Yes (Nasal Spray)
5 (1.7%)
No
172 (59.5%)

Total Members Voted: 288

Author Topic: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread  (Read 193829 times)

Offline sky121

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #2655 on: May 13, 2019, 10:21:03 PM »
You are probably misunderstanding what the medical community is saying when they conclude that vaccines are safe and effective. There’s a risk in almost everything we do. There’s a risk getting behind the wheel. There’s a statistically significant short term elevated risk of a heart attack when exercising. It’s always a cost benefit analysis (hundreds of people who suffer cardiac arrest while working out vs the hundreds of thousands who would suffer the effects of a sedentary lifestyle if nobody exercised). Cherry picking any numbers and raising an alarm when there is staggering evidence that the cost is vastly outweighed by the benefits is bad science. You can easily make the case that we should all stay in bed due to the thousands of people who suffer adverse effects of venturing out of their homes each day.

When the medical community says that vaccines are safe they are saying that the benefit vastly outweighs the risk. To point to an adverse reaction and deduce that the medical community is wrong is faulty logic.

I'm not misunderstanding. Most people in the media are saying there is no risk.  And at this point they would be better off saying the truth, of course there is a risk, but with everything there is a risk. And the risk is small. etc etc etc. The facts. That's all. Saying blanket statements like that isn't helpful in getting someone to vaccinate when they have concerns.   Don't they want to help people realize they should be vaccinating?






When the medical community says that vaccines are safe they are saying that the benefit vastly outweighs the risk.
To point to an adverse reaction and deduce that the medical community is wrong is faulty logic.

Then that's what they should be saying. Half the people out there are just saying there is no risk and everyone is crazy and the end.  Even if that's what they think, even if they mean the risk is low and it's worth it, if they want to accomplish something they should be saying what they mean. 
I just think they'd get further.






"Not all who wander are lost"

Offline shmielyosef

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #2656 on: May 13, 2019, 10:22:09 PM »
I'm not misunderstanding. Most people in the media are saying there is no risk.  And at this point they would be better off saying the truth, of course there is a risk, but with everything there is a risk. And the risk is small. etc etc etc. The facts. That's all. Saying blanket statements like that isn't helpful in getting someone to vaccinate when they have concerns.   Don't they want to help people realize they should be vaccinating?





Then that's what they should be saying. Half the people out there are just saying there is no risk and everyone is crazy and the end.  Even if that's what they think, even if they mean the risk is low and it's worth it, if they want to accomplish something they should be saying what they mean. 
I just think they'd get further.
They're not really saying there's no risk. More like they're fed up with the antivaxxers craziness about autism etc.

Offline sky121

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #2657 on: May 13, 2019, 10:25:55 PM »
You haven't mentioned a name of a "middle" person yet. You also haven't said where u get that vaccines aren't as safe as they can be. 
Usually doctors that let patients spreas out vaccines are eother humoring parents(which they would never let during any outbreak) or they're irresponsible and didn't think it through

Actually it was suggested by the doctor. I won't keep having this conversation because it seems (and you can correct me if I am wrong) that think there is no way possible that any sort of reaction (even small) could be caused by vaccines.  So we just disagree.

Again, I don't have a name. I'd have to go back and watch various interviews etc. You have to weed them out of all the extreme views on both sides.    Those people are shouting from the rooftops.

And there are plenty of people I know personally as well who have their concerns with vaccines but still vaccinate. 
Now you've met one :)

"Not all who wander are lost"

Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #2658 on: May 13, 2019, 10:26:38 PM »
Oh brother. As someone who has my own real concerns with vaccines I can also tell you that many of the speakers listed here are so to the extreme you can't unfortunately take much they say at face value.    They sure chose "the best of the best" to speak didn't they? 
Sigh
This isn't a surprise that we're going to disagree here but I'm not convinced that vaccines are as safe as they could be. And as with many different things and medicines and drugs etc ..  I believe there is room for improvement.  We improve with things all the time. That's how it goes.

It's ok if we disagree. At the end of the day we all want the same thing. :)
There are no "real concerns". They are just in your head.
Most people "concerned" usually have close relative diagnosed with a condition that would be easier to accept if they could blame vaccines.. never scientific or real.

You are what is called a "vaccine skeptic". A very dangerous group, though not as deadly as full anti vaxxers or militant anti vaxers, still very risky.


Offline sky121

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #2659 on: May 13, 2019, 10:28:15 PM »
They're not really saying there's no risk. More like they're fed up with the antivaxxers craziness about autism etc.

I hear. You're right. They are. And that's what they are saying. But right now I think they should focus on best trying to reach the "anti vaxxers" or anyone not vaccinating and explain to them why they should. Not just call everyone crazy and deny all risk etc.

Wouldn't that be the right psychological approach? 
That's my thought anyways. 
"Not all who wander are lost"

Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #2660 on: May 13, 2019, 10:30:14 PM »
Actually it was suggested by the doctor. I won't keep having this conversation because it seems (and you can correct me if I am wrong) that think there is no way possible that any sort of reaction (even small) could be caused by vaccines.  So we just disagree.

Again, I don't have a name. I'd have to go back and watch various interviews etc. You have to weed them out of all the extreme views on both sides.    Those people are shouting from the rooftops.

And there are plenty of people I know personally as well who have their concerns with vaccines but still vaccinate. 
Now you've met one :)
Maybe watch the video. Do you agree with the facts as presented? Or are you skeptical?
If you agree with the facts and are still "really concerned" about vaccinating, you would have to concede that this is not a normal concern from a rational place.

Offline sky121

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #2661 on: May 13, 2019, 10:30:41 PM »
There are no "real concerns". They are just in your head.
Most people "concerned" usually have close relative diagnosed with a condition that would be easier to accept if they could blame vaccines.. never scientific or real.

You are what is called a "vaccine skeptic". A very dangerous group, though not as deadly as full anti vaxxers or militant anti vaxers, still very risky.

And it's reactions like this that also make it for anyone who has any concerns to not even be able to say anything.
I am not a skeptic. I have no doubt vaccines save lives. I believe in vaccinating.
and BH I have no relatives or people I know of personally even that have anything that they believe came from vaccines.
   I don't worry about vaccines causing autism specifically even. That's not really on my radar. I just have concerns about the like I do other things as well. Like various medications...
"Not all who wander are lost"

Offline shmielyosef

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #2662 on: May 13, 2019, 10:31:10 PM »
I hear. You're right. They are. And that's what they are saying. But right now I think they should focus on best trying to reach the "anti vaxxers" or anyone not vaccinating and explain to them why they should. Not just call everyone crazy and deny all risk etc.

Wouldn't that be the right psychological approach? 
That's my thought anyways.
Antivaxxers are saying such ridiculous and misproven arguments that there's no use talking to them.
I did a lot of reading and watching on the topic and I'm quite confident to say that the people ur basing ur concerns on are closet antivax

Offline shmielyosef

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #2663 on: May 13, 2019, 10:32:03 PM »
And it's reactions like this that also make it for anyone who has any concerns to not even be able to say anything.
I am not a skeptic. I have no doubt vaccines save lives. I believe in vaccinating.
and BH I have no relatives or people I know of personally even that have anything that they believe came from vaccines.
   I don't worry about vaccines causing autism specifically even. That's not really on my radar. I just have concerns about the like I do other things as well. Like various medications...
So maybe it's just plain anxiety. You don't seem to have any specific realistic concern that you believe in...

Offline sky121

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #2664 on: May 13, 2019, 10:32:08 PM »
Maybe watch the video. Do you agree with the facts as presented? Or are you skeptical?
If you agree with the facts and are still "really concerned" about vaccinating, you would have to concede that this is not a normal concern from a rational place.

The video JJ posted? I wrote specifically I liked that video.
I thought it was done very well.


"Not all who wander are lost"

Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #2665 on: May 13, 2019, 10:32:54 PM »
And it's reactions like this that also make it for anyone who has any concerns to not even be able to say anything.
I am not a skeptic. I have no doubt vaccines save lives. I believe in vaccinating.
and BH I have no relatives or people I know of personally even that have anything that they believe came from vaccines.
   I don't worry about vaccines causing autism specifically even. That's not really on my radar. I just have concerns about the like I do other things as well. Like various medications...
Oh. I totally misunderstood.

I think I know the type of feeling.. it's the same anxiety of getting a cavity filled. You know it's fine but your still nervous. 99.99% emotional with .01% "real risk".

Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #2666 on: May 13, 2019, 10:33:53 PM »
The video JJ posted? I wrote specifically I liked that video.
I thought it was done very well.
Do you agree or believe in the facts as presented?

Offline sky121

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #2667 on: May 13, 2019, 10:36:32 PM »
So maybe it's just plain anxiety. You don't seem to have any specific realistic concern that you believe in...

I don't have anxiety about it. It's more a mistrust in the ingredients and reactions put into things.
It comes up less with vaccines and more with everyday medicines. I just have a general cautious about things like that. That's all.


I always feel like there are two kinds of people in the world.

One who gets prescribed a drug by a doctor and goes and fills it and takes it and the end.
And the other who gets prescribed something by a doctor and asks the doctors various questions about the drugs, about its side effects, how much it's needed, the smallest dose possible they could take, and reads up about the drug online etc.

I just fall under the second category. Not everyone does.

Some people pop Advil every other day and I'm the one who tries to only take any sort of pill only if really needed.

 

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Offline sky121

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #2668 on: May 13, 2019, 10:37:52 PM »
Oh. I totally misunderstood.

I think I know the type of feeling.. it's the same anxiety of getting a cavity filled. You know it's fine but your still nervous. 99.99% emotional with .01% "real risk".


The problem with this whole thing is everyone is so emotional about it. I feel your anger coming through. It's amazing. And I believe in vaccinating! This is one of the worst parts of what this whole thing has caused.
"Not all who wander are lost"

Offline sky121

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #2669 on: May 13, 2019, 10:39:24 PM »
Do you agree or believe in the facts as presented?

I agree that the risks are so low that there is no reason to not vaccinate if you are a healthy individual.
Hence why I believe in vaccinating. :)


This isn't a topic near and dear to my heart. It just happens to be a topic we're all discussing because of the recent events.

I don't spend too much time thinking about all this.
"Not all who wander are lost"