Topic Wiki

The wiki is divided into groups for "fact" and "opinion." Please feel free to add whichever facts you know and opinions you have. Please try to avoid cluttering the wiki with unnecessary information such as outside links.

Please do not delete anything from this wiki.  If you disagree with an opinion, feel free to post your own. If you disagree with a fact--well, that's your opinion, and feel free to post it under opinions!

Facts
The flu vaccine causes more deaths per year than chicken pox.
The direct injection of RSV immunoglobulin, commonly known as the "RSV vaccine" would prevent 16x more deaths than the flu vaccine does, but is too expensive.
There is a vaccine for the plague, and that is why it is no longer an epidemic.
Ebola is caused by vaccines.
There is a vaccine for autism, but it causes mumps.


Opinions
Vaccines do not contain thimerosal, a known toxin.
If you snuck up on your neighbor's kid and cut open his skull, you would be arrested.  But when brain surgeons do it, and charge hundreds of thousands of dollars, it considered "medicine."
99% of vaccines do not cause autism (HT JJ1000).
Every pedi has seen healthy kids become sick physically & mentally hours after a vax (HT Baryochai)
Vaccines cause cancer, infertility, astma, adhd etc (HT Baryochai)

Poll

Did You Get The Flu Vaccine This Winter?

Yes (Shot)
112 (38.6%)
Yes (Nasal Spray)
5 (1.7%)
No
173 (59.7%)

Total Members Voted: 289

Author Topic: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread  (Read 196452 times)

Offline chevron

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #2685 on: May 14, 2019, 12:38:56 AM »
Sorry, got confused. I dont think the common sense happens in the way described. At least I have not seen it. All I see is people loudly proclaiming that there are absolutely no risks and anyone concerned is looney

There are risks in drinking water and breathing air.  Do you do it?! Well you have no choice.

With a 90% spread rate, someone who doesn't vaxx and causes others to get measels is a rodef. I'd sue them straight up!!

We all have fears in life. That's nice, don't vaxx?!? Keep your kids the f*** home forever, ideally lose custody of your kids.

Offline yzj

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #2686 on: May 14, 2019, 12:47:19 AM »
The idea that non-vaccination is exclusively (or even primarily) amongst the uneducated is just plain wrong.

Offline chevron

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #2687 on: May 14, 2019, 12:55:09 AM »
There are risks to childbirth. Someone took those risks and had a child.

The article is backed by scientific proof. It's why we get frustrated by Rav kaminetzky who will say oh I heared from such and such doctor about such and such case

We can't question a gadol but he can trash medical science?!! ..so maybe he heard of 1 case.  Out of millions of vaccines given.

What happened to achrayos?!? I thought kashrus was about neemanus?!? Where is the neemanus here?!?

I have friends with real medical issues like agenesis of the corpus callosum and GVHD and people dying from cancer and I've seen yes in cases traditional Chinese medicine gekoe in part but it's 21st century medicine really helping people.

Also as someone who went deaf at 19 and can only hear due to an auditory brainstem implant.. I wonder how these people would have coped without medical science

Offline Yehuda57

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #2688 on: May 14, 2019, 06:17:27 AM »


Since when is “nationwide” capitalized?

Depends on who's side they're on.
Quote from: ExGingi
[Stating things eloquently] seems to be Yehuda57's job around here :)

Offline zh cohen

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #2689 on: May 14, 2019, 08:06:17 AM »
https://greaterlakewood.com/gl-exclusive-anti-vaxxers-responses/
Quote
Harav Shmuel Kamenetzky Shlit”a said it’s a gezeira min hashamayim rabbonim shouldn’t see the truth.

If this quote is true, has anyone asked him how he knows it's not the other way around?

Online yitzgar

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #2690 on: May 14, 2019, 08:11:13 AM »


There are risks to childbirth. Someone took those risks and had a child.

I have friends with real medical issues like agenesis of the corpus callosum and GVHD and people dying from cancer and I've seen yes in cases traditional Chinese medicine gekoe in part but it's 21st century medicine really helping people.

Also as someone who went deaf at 19 and can only hear due to an auditory brainstem implant.. I wonder how these people would have coped without medical science

+1 This is what should be said.

Online skyguy918

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #2691 on: May 14, 2019, 09:48:19 AM »

Depends on who's side they're on.
Was gonna make that joke, but couldn't formulate it properly. You nailed it though.

ETA: Really needs the jingle to drive it home.

Offline aygart

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #2692 on: May 14, 2019, 09:51:04 AM »

We knew that this event was geared towards those without secular education. That was very apparent from the sign. It shows nothing about the movement in general.
You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say can and will be used to start a religious discussion.

Offline aygart

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #2693 on: May 14, 2019, 10:02:05 AM »
I think that most who have been in this thread have seen how I am vociferously pro-vaccines. That comes from my having reviewed what anti-vaxxers have presented to downplay the benefits of vaccinating and seeing from their own sources that it is all a bunch of bunk. With the tremendous benefits of vaccines has come a streamlined approval process and a different vetting process with different check and balances than other drugs.

THIS IS THE WAY IT NEEDS TO BE.

On the other hand, this means that some of the claims made by the anti-vaxxers about the safety of vaccines are not entirely false. They are not tested in the same way as other drugs. The drug companies do not face the same liabilities if they produce defective products. The potential issues from this are made worse by the anti-vaxxers using this to push their agenda. That causes concerns and issues to be swept under the rug to counteract their dangerous claims.

Again, some of this is needed to avoid the false claims from gaining a larger following than they already have, but people eventually see through it. This is causing some who would otherwise be pro-vaccines to have concerns which may or may not have some level of legitimacy to them. Maybe there should be a level of post-approval testing to bring them to the same stringent approval standards of other drugs or something of that sort. Maybe there already is and it is not marketed well enough.
« Last Edit: May 14, 2019, 10:07:08 AM by jj1000 »
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Offline aygart

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #2694 on: May 14, 2019, 10:45:40 AM »
« Last Edit: Today at 10:07:08 AM by jj1000 »

Thank you for proofreading :)
You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say can and will be used to start a religious discussion.

Offline Boruch999

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #2695 on: May 14, 2019, 10:47:04 AM »
I think that most who have been in this thread have seen how I am vociferously pro-vaccines. That comes from my having reviewed what anti-vaxxers have presented to downplay the benefits of vaccinating and seeing from their own sources that it is all a bunch of bunk. With the tremendous benefits of vaccines has come a streamlined approval process and a different vetting process with different check and balances than other drugs.

THIS IS THE WAY IT NEEDS TO BE.

On the other hand, this means that some of the claims made by the anti-vaxxers about the safety of vaccines are not entirely false. They are not tested in the same way as other drugs. The drug companies do not face the same liabilities if they produce defective products. The potential issues from this are made worse by the anti-vaxxers using this to push their agenda. That causes concerns and issues to be swept under the rug to counteract their dangerous claims.

Again, some of this is needed to avoid the false claims from gaining a larger following than they already have, but people eventually see through it. This is causing some who would otherwise be pro-vaccines to have concerns which may or may not have some level of legitimacy to them. Maybe there should be a level of post-approval testing to bring them to the same stringent approval standards of other drugs or something of that sort. Maybe there already is and it is not marketed well enough.

https://medium.com/@gidmk/things-that-have-never-been-tested-in-a-placebo-controlled-double-blind-study-9dec31590694

Offline aygart

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #2696 on: May 14, 2019, 11:22:05 AM »
https://medium.com/@gidmk/things-that-have-never-been-tested-in-a-placebo-controlled-double-blind-study-9dec31590694
He addresses the testing about the effectiveness and not about safety. Either way, I fully agree and an only saying that testing can continue post-approval.
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Offline thaber

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #2697 on: May 14, 2019, 12:12:06 PM »
further to @aygart and the @yitzgar etc. There is a very nice and nuanced letter from the Federation Beis Din in UK, that I thought was delicately written and makes the point nicely and with consideration https://www.federation.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/Press-release-on-measles-_-Federation.pdf

Online shmielyosef

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #2698 on: May 14, 2019, 12:15:18 PM »
He addresses the testing about the effectiveness and not about safety. Either way, I fully agree and an only saying that testing can continue post-approval.
Why would you need testing post approval? And is the monitoring that's already in place not enough for that?

Offline aygart

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #2699 on: May 14, 2019, 12:33:48 PM »
Why would you need testing post approval? And is the monitoring that's already in place not enough for that?
Maybe it is, but the logging of reactions by doctors in the field may not be as comprehensive since it relies on them connecting it to the vaccine whereas when there is a controlled test done all symptoms of any sort within the group will be recorded to find any patterns even if there is no apparent connection. When doctors are on the defensive about the vaccines their knee-jerk reaction will be to dismiss any connection and therefore not report it.

Also,
Maybe there already is and it is not marketed well enough.
You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say can and will be used to start a religious discussion.