Topic Wiki

The wiki is divided into groups for "fact" and "opinion." Please feel free to add whichever facts you know and opinions you have. Please try to avoid cluttering the wiki with unnecessary information such as outside links.

Please do not delete anything from this wiki.  If you disagree with an opinion, feel free to post your own. If you disagree with a fact--well, that's your opinion, and feel free to post it under opinions!

Facts
The flu vaccine causes more deaths per year than chicken pox.
The direct injection of RSV immunoglobulin, commonly known as the "RSV vaccine" would prevent 16x more deaths than the flu vaccine does, but is too expensive.
There is a vaccine for the plague, and that is why it is no longer an epidemic.
Ebola is caused by vaccines.
There is a vaccine for autism, but it causes mumps.


Opinions
Vaccines do not contain thimerosal, a known toxin.
If you snuck up on your neighbor's kid and cut open his skull, you would be arrested.  But when brain surgeons do it, and charge hundreds of thousands of dollars, it considered "medicine."
99% of vaccines do not cause autism (HT JJ1000).
Every pedi has seen healthy kids become sick physically & mentally hours after a vax (HT Baryochai)
Vaccines cause cancer, infertility, astma, adhd etc (HT Baryochai)

Poll

Did You Get The Flu Vaccine This Winter?

Yes (Shot)
112 (38.8%)
Yes (Nasal Spray)
5 (1.7%)
No
172 (59.5%)

Total Members Voted: 288

Author Topic: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread  (Read 194035 times)

Online shaulyaakov

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #2775 on: May 28, 2019, 12:13:17 AM »
You would give it to your child if you know there's a significant chance it'll cause autism? give me a break.
Even according to people who say it causes autism, it's still rare for it to. Otherwise 99.99% of the population would be autistic. I'd take a chance at autism over a chance of dying.

Again, purely hypothetical as there is zero evidence that they do. It's just as likely that they cause superior intelligence.

Offline mmgfarb

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #2776 on: May 28, 2019, 06:20:11 AM »
Even according to people who say it causes autism, it's still rare for it to. Otherwise 99.99% of the population would be autistic. I'd take a chance at autism over a chance of dying.

Again, purely hypothetical as there is zero evidence that they do. It's just as likely that they cause superior intelligence.
The argument would be that there's really no risk of dying, especially in America.
"JS [is] a fetid cesspool of unvarnished linguistic manure, with lots of useless drivel and post-padding." -Moishebatchy

Offline Boruch999

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #2777 on: May 28, 2019, 07:03:57 AM »
The argument would be that there's really no risk of dying, especially in America.
There are reportedly 2 people in Israel with irreversible brain damage due to measles.

Offline mmgfarb

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #2778 on: May 28, 2019, 08:15:29 AM »
There are reportedly 2 people in Israel with irreversible brain damage due to measles.
Are they dead? Autism is also irreversible brain damage. Again, I'm not saying that vaccine causes autism, there's obviously no evidence to support that, I was just coming to answer what I thought was a stupid argument.
"JS [is] a fetid cesspool of unvarnished linguistic manure, with lots of useless drivel and post-padding." -Moishebatchy

Online shaulyaakov

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #2779 on: May 28, 2019, 08:31:00 AM »
Are they dead? Autism is also irreversible brain damage. Again, I'm not saying that vaccine causes autism, there's obviously no evidence to support that, I was just coming to answer what I thought was a stupid argument.
If large segments of the population were to stop vaccinating, there would be a bigger risk.

Offline mmgfarb

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #2780 on: May 28, 2019, 08:59:49 AM »
If large segments of the population were to stop vaccinating, there would be a bigger risk.
But large segments of the population haven't stopped vaccinating...
"JS [is] a fetid cesspool of unvarnished linguistic manure, with lots of useless drivel and post-padding." -Moishebatchy

Online shaulyaakov

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #2781 on: May 28, 2019, 09:05:31 AM »
But large segments of the population haven't stopped vaccinating...
The people who think that people shouldn't vaccinate due to autism think that everyone shouldn't. Taken to the logical extreme, that would mean that nobody vaccinated. In which case you'd increased risks to everyone.

Offline Boruch999

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #2782 on: May 28, 2019, 10:03:10 AM »
Are they dead? Autism is also irreversible brain damage. Again, I'm not saying that vaccine causes autism, there's obviously no evidence to support that, I was just coming to answer what I thought was a stupid argument.

Please elaborate as to why you think my statement was a stupid argument.

There is evidence to support that measles can lead to various complications including:

Quote from: https://www.cdc.gov/measles/about/complications.html
Severe Complications in Children and Adults
Some people may suffer from severe complications, such as pneumonia (infection of the lungs) and encephalitis (swelling of the brain). They may need to be hospitalized and could die.


About 1 out of 4 people who get measles will be hospitalized.


As many as 1 out of every 20 children with measles gets pneumonia, the most common cause of death from measles in young children.


About 1 child out of every 1,000 who get measles will develop encephalitis (swelling of the brain) that can lead to convulsions and can leave the child deaf or with intellectual disability.


Nearly 1 or 2 of every 1,000 children who become infected with measles will die from respiratory and neurologic complications.


Measles may cause pregnant women who have not had the MMR vaccine to give birth prematurely, or have a low-birth-weight baby.

You said there is no risk of dying, especially in America.  You implied that in places that have modern healthcare the risk of measles is trivial. I pointed out that in Israel which has a modern healthcare system measles has left 2 people with serious complications.

As it turns out, according to the CDC, in the US 1-2 of 1000 children would die.  There is no evidence that anyone dies from the MMR vaccine.

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #2783 on: May 28, 2019, 10:25:40 AM »
Please elaborate as to why you think my statement was a stupid argument.

There is evidence to support that measles can lead to various complications including:

You said there is no risk of dying, especially in America.  You implied that in places that have modern healthcare the risk of measles is trivial. I pointed out that in Israel which has a modern healthcare system measles has left 2 people with serious complications.

As it turns out, according to the CDC, in the US 1-2 of 1000 children would die.  There is no evidence that anyone ever died from the MMR vaccine.
FTFY
I'm going crazy, wanna come along?

Offline chevron

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #2784 on: May 28, 2019, 11:43:01 AM »
They mock the medical establishment and pharmacutical companies till they get sick.

Treatment for chronic hepatitis B may include: Antiviral medications. Several antiviral medications including entecavir (Baraclude), tenofovir (Viread), lamivudine (Epivir), adefovir (Hepsera) and telbivudine (Tyzeka) can help fight the virus and slow its ability to damage your liver.

I'm sure they have better methods like mustard and garlic.

I respect that people have concerns but why are they blind to the alternatives? As was pointed out here. You take abstract and circumstancel evidence of the risks and dangers of MMR and clearly ignore hard scientific recorded medical data on measels?!?

inoculation has been around for 500-1000 years for smallpox vaccination and I'm sure back then people balked at injecting a disease.

In France, considerable opposition arose to the introduction of inoculation, and it was banned by the Parlement. Voltaire, in his Lettres Philosophiques, wrote a criticism of his countrymen for being opposed to inoculation and having so little regard for the welfare of their children, concluding that "had inoculation been practised in France it would have saved the lives of thousands.

But Voltaire was a shmutzik apikores!!

Inoculation grew in popularity in Europe through the 18th century. Given the high prevalence and often severe consequences of smallpox in Europe in the 18th century (according to Voltaire, there was a 60% incidence of first infection, a 20% mortality rate, and a 20% incidence of severe scarring),[28] many parents felt that the benefits of inoculation outweighed the risks and so inoculated their children

And here there is a clear proof arguments but again people just drill logic in their head's and make them into facts.

So why should we go crazy to address these claims and concerns when the anti vaxxers will not listen regardless?

Btw all the health nuts chugging kombucha and eating Fermented food, the discovery of healthy gut bacteria was made by the man who also invented some vaccine's oy!!

Sir Waldemar Mordechai Wolff Haffkine CIE (Russian: Мордехай-Вольф Хавкин; 15 March 1860 26 October 1930) was a bacteriologist from the Russian Empire whose career was blighted in Russia because he refused to convert from Judaism to Russian Orthodox Christianity.[1] He emigrated and worked at the Pasteur Institute in Paris, where he developed an anti-cholera vaccine that he tried out successfully in India. He is recognized as the first microbiologist who developed and used vaccines against cholera and bubonic plague. He tested the vaccines on himself. Lord Joseph Lister named him "a saviour of humanity".

Offline chevron

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #2785 on: May 28, 2019, 11:47:24 AM »
He also was frum in his later years.. it's not my fault the orthodox establishment won't send their kids to college so we have few frum doctors these days and maybe one frum doctor can cause crazy damage because the community trusts him and who knows why some guy may take a anti vaccine stance.

The overwhelming medical establishment supports MMR a vaccine around for 50 years ago all of a sudden it became evil.


Offline mmgfarb

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #2786 on: May 28, 2019, 11:49:41 AM »
You implied that in places that have modern healthcare the risk of measles is trivial.

That is not at all what I implied, I would appreciate if you would refrain from putting words in my mouth.
"JS [is] a fetid cesspool of unvarnished linguistic manure, with lots of useless drivel and post-padding." -Moishebatchy

Offline mmgfarb

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #2787 on: May 28, 2019, 11:51:57 AM »
They mock the medical establishment and pharmacutical companies till they get sick.

Treatment for chronic hepatitis B may include: Antiviral medications. Several antiviral medications including entecavir (Baraclude), tenofovir (Viread), lamivudine (Epivir), adefovir (Hepsera) and telbivudine (Tyzeka) can help fight the virus and slow its ability to damage your liver.

I'm sure they have better methods like mustard and garlic.

I respect that people have concerns but why are they blind to the alternatives? As was pointed out here. You take abstract and circumstancel evidence of the risks and dangers of MMR and clearly ignore hard scientific recorded medical data on measels?!?

inoculation has been around for 500-1000 years for smallpox vaccination and I'm sure back then people balked at injecting a disease.

In France, considerable opposition arose to the introduction of inoculation, and it was banned by the Parlement. Voltaire, in his Lettres Philosophiques, wrote a criticism of his countrymen for being opposed to inoculation and having so little regard for the welfare of their children, concluding that "had inoculation been practised in France it would have saved the lives of thousands.

But Voltaire was a shmutzik apikores!!

Inoculation grew in popularity in Europe through the 18th century. Given the high prevalence and often severe consequences of smallpox in Europe in the 18th century (according to Voltaire, there was a 60% incidence of first infection, a 20% mortality rate, and a 20% incidence of severe scarring),[28] many parents felt that the benefits of inoculation outweighed the risks and so inoculated their children

And here there is a clear proof arguments but again people just drill logic in their head's and make them into facts.

So why should we go crazy to address these claims and concerns when the anti vaxxers will not listen regardless?

Btw all the health nuts chugging kombucha and eating Fermented food, the discovery of healthy gut bacteria was made by the man who also invented some vaccine's oy!!

Sir Waldemar Mordechai Wolff Haffkine CIE (Russian: Мордехай-Вольф Хавкин; 15 March 1860 26 October 1930) was a bacteriologist from the Russian Empire whose career was blighted in Russia because he refused to convert from Judaism to Russian Orthodox Christianity.[1] He emigrated and worked at the Pasteur Institute in Paris, where he developed an anti-cholera vaccine that he tried out successfully in India. He is recognized as the first microbiologist who developed and used vaccines against cholera and bubonic plague. He tested the vaccines on himself. Lord Joseph Lister named him "a saviour of humanity".
Dude, you seriously have to calm down. Your arguments are starting to border on manic and you sound just as crazy as the people you're coming to "fight against."
"JS [is] a fetid cesspool of unvarnished linguistic manure, with lots of useless drivel and post-padding." -Moishebatchy

Offline mmgfarb

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #2788 on: May 28, 2019, 11:52:34 AM »
He also was frum in his later years.. it's not my fault the orthodox establishment won't send their kids to college so we have few frum doctors these days and maybe one frum doctor can cause crazy damage because the community trusts him and who knows why some guy may take a anti vaccine stance.
Lol, ever been to CLE? The place is swarming with frum doctors. (Besides for the fact that there are very good reasons that the frum community is not sending their kids to regular colleges.)
"JS [is] a fetid cesspool of unvarnished linguistic manure, with lots of useless drivel and post-padding." -Moishebatchy

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #2789 on: May 28, 2019, 11:55:56 AM »
The argument would be that there's really no risk of dying, especially in America.

But there is a risk and people do die. No they haven't yet as the measels rates have been low bh but should they expand, yes we will see death's lo aleinu.

This is so idiotic because you are proposing taxing the medical establishment with clearly preventable diseases.

Again go start your own anti vaxxer community and stay far away from us.