Topic Wiki

The wiki is divided into groups for "fact" and "opinion." Please feel free to add whichever facts you know and opinions you have. Please try to avoid cluttering the wiki with unnecessary information such as outside links.

Please do not delete anything from this wiki.  If you disagree with an opinion, feel free to post your own. If you disagree with a fact--well, that's your opinion, and feel free to post it under opinions!

Facts
The flu vaccine causes more deaths per year than chicken pox.
The direct injection of RSV immunoglobulin, commonly known as the "RSV vaccine" would prevent 16x more deaths than the flu vaccine does, but is too expensive.
There is a vaccine for the plague, and that is why it is no longer an epidemic.
Ebola is caused by vaccines.
There is a vaccine for autism, but it causes mumps.


Opinions
Vaccines do not contain thimerosal, a known toxin.
If you snuck up on your neighbor's kid and cut open his skull, you would be arrested.  But when brain surgeons do it, and charge hundreds of thousands of dollars, it considered "medicine."
99% of vaccines do not cause autism (HT JJ1000).
Every pedi has seen healthy kids become sick physically & mentally hours after a vax (HT Baryochai)
Vaccines cause cancer, infertility, astma, adhd etc (HT Baryochai)

Poll

Did You Get The Flu Vaccine This Winter?

Yes (Shot)
121 (37.2%)
Yes (Nasal Spray)
5 (1.5%)
No
199 (61.2%)

Total Members Voted: 323

Author Topic: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread  (Read 592894 times)

Offline Boruch999

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #2800 on: August 13, 2019, 11:11:10 AM »
y was she not vaccinated ?
She was. She did not get the booster.

Offline shwarmabob

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #2801 on: August 13, 2019, 11:51:23 AM »
mother of 3 kids. bd"e

Offline shaulyaakov

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #2802 on: August 13, 2019, 02:47:44 PM »
When people call out those with public profiles who discourage vaccines, this is why.

Offline henche

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #2803 on: November 11, 2019, 02:22:23 PM »
I have a new chiddush, relevant here.

Causation does not equal correlation. We all know that correlation can be coincidence and doesn't equal causation.  My hearah is that not every causation relationship happens frequently enough that it can be shown with large random sample statistics.

For example, some people are allergic to latex.  However, if you took a million people at random, and exposed them to latex, I'm betting that the increase in allergic reactions versus the number in the general population would not be statistically significant. If you don't believe that for latex, it is definitely true for some more rare allergies.

So how do you know if you're allergic to latex? With non-random non-scientific, anecdotal evidence that you touched latex and got hives.

This is all to say that the fact that vaccines do not increase Bad Thing rates on a population-wide scale in a statistically significant manner doesn't indicate that it never causes Bad Thing to anyone.  It does indicate that we probably shouldn't be too concerned that it will cause Bad Thing in any specific person, but if someone observed it causing Bad Thing that isn't contradicted.   

Offline aygart

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #2804 on: November 11, 2019, 03:13:15 PM »
I have a new chiddush, relevant here.

Causation does not equal correlation. We all know that correlation can be coincidence and doesn't equal causation.  My hearah is that not every causation relationship happens frequently enough that it can be shown with large random sample statistics.

For example, some people are allergic to latex.  However, if you took a million people at random, and exposed them to latex, I'm betting that the increase in allergic reactions versus the number in the general population would not be statistically significant. If you don't believe that for latex, it is definitely true for some more rare allergies.

So how do you know if you're allergic to latex? With non-random non-scientific, anecdotal evidence that you touched latex and got hives.

This is all to say that the fact that vaccines do not increase Bad Thing rates on a population-wide scale in a statistically significant manner doesn't indicate that it never causes Bad Thing to anyone.  It does indicate that we probably shouldn't be too concerned that it will cause Bad Thing in any specific person, but if someone observed it causing Bad Thing that isn't contradicted.   
No person is 10% allergic to latex, but if 10% of the population is allergic then the individual anecdotal evidence would be to show that they are part of that 10%. If 0% of the population is allergic to oxygen then any anecdotal evidence would need to be interpreted in a manner disregarding a connection to an oxygen allergy.

Regarding the vaccines, if someone claims a side effect which there is no statistically significant connection it will lead us to infer that it is most likely unconnected to the vaccine or possibly even that it never happened.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline henche

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #2805 on: November 11, 2019, 03:48:05 PM »
L'moshol, if I told you that 1 in 100 million people is allergic to latex, how would you confirm that?

If you took 100 million people and exposed them to latex, my postulate is that one extra person would have an allergic reaction. However, that one extra person is not going to yield a statistically significant result, so your study will prove that nobody is allergic to latex.

But the guy who breaks out in hives when he touches latex knows he's allergic to latex. 

Offline aygart

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #2806 on: November 11, 2019, 04:00:53 PM »
L'moshol, if I told you that 1 in 100 million people is allergic to latex, how would you confirm that?

If you took 100 million people and exposed them to latex, my postulate is that one extra person would have an allergic reaction. However, that one extra person is not going to yield a statistically significant result, so your study will prove that nobody is allergic to latex.

But the guy who breaks out in hives when he touches latex knows he's allergic to latex. 
Or that he randomly got hives or that there was some other allergen present. What are the statistics of people getting hives for no apparent reason? Due to something thye ate a few hours ago? Something in the air? A virus?
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline henche

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #2807 on: November 11, 2019, 04:22:39 PM »
Or that he randomly got hives or that there was some other allergen present. What are the statistics of people getting hives for no apparent reason? Due to something thye ate a few hours ago? Something in the air? A virus?

Exactly. We agree.

In other words, there are things that cause other things that can't be proven by taken random samples. 

My kid was taking azythramycin, and the insert said it can cause this totally crazy rash that turns into third degree burns.  Turns out, this has happened all of three times ever.  Does that mean it didn't happen? Or that that azythramycin didn't cause it?  No. It just means it's rare and only happens to very specific people or in very specific circumstances.

Offline aygart

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #2808 on: November 11, 2019, 04:28:57 PM »
Exactly. We agree.

In other words, there are things that cause other things that can't be proven by taken random samples. 

My kid was taking azythramycin, and the insert said it can cause this totally crazy rash that turns into third degree burns.  Turns out, this has happened all of three times ever.  Does that mean it didn't happen? Or that that azythramycin didn't cause it?  No. It just means it's rare and only happens to very specific people or in very specific circumstances.
Fine next step if there is one.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline mmgfarb

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #2809 on: November 11, 2019, 04:56:39 PM »
See the CDC's website, there are many known possible side affects of vaccines that don't occur in a "statistically" significant number of the population.
"JS [is] a fetid cesspool of unvarnished linguistic manure, with lots of useless drivel and post-padding." -Moishebatchy

Offline henche

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #2810 on: November 11, 2019, 05:52:38 PM »
See the CDC's website, there are many known possible side affects of vaccines that don't occur in a "statistically" significant number of the population.

Exactly.


Offline Yard sale

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #2811 on: December 01, 2019, 10:04:06 PM »

Offline YankyDoodle

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #2812 on: December 08, 2019, 12:08:09 PM »
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=QCSaKg33jAc

Just gonna drop some facts here and slowly walk away. Y’all have fun and play nice. Also try not to die.

Offline CountValentine

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #2813 on: December 08, 2019, 01:46:55 PM »
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=QCSaKg33jAc

Just gonna drop some facts here and slowly walk away. Y’all have fun and play nice. Also try not to die.
Scare tactics? Did they die because of poor healthcare?
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Offline henche

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #2814 on: December 08, 2019, 03:54:21 PM »
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=QCSaKg33jAc

Just gonna drop some facts here and slowly walk away. Y’all have fun and play nice. Also try not to die.

Ok, so the govt nurses giving vaccines mixed another drug into the vaccine that killed some kids.  So they stopped vaccinating and kids got measles. And then I’m gonna hazard  that the case they got when sick also stunk, like maybe again there were other drugs mixed into whatever treatment they got?

So the moral of the story is don’t get sick in Samoa?

Offline YankyDoodle

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #2815 on: December 08, 2019, 05:05:10 PM »
So instead of finding any possible explanation for why they possibly may have not have all died entirely due to measles. Can we simply recognize that herd immunity is a real thing? Can we recognize that measles is extremely contagious and has the potential to kill or maim an obscene number of young and otherwise healthy babies and children? Can we acknowledge that vaccines due significantly mitigate the number of people getting diseases and dispose with the ridiculous theory that people no longer get the diseases because sanitation improved at he same time? (Samoa did not simultaneously shut down their water and sewer departments when they suspended the vaccine program. Although they did shit down the government to use those workers to help give vaccines now once they realized what a disaster it is to have an unvaccinated society.)

Can we simply recognize that vaccines work, are important and that herd immunity does exist? That will be enough of a lesson from 60+ babies dying for today. Also based on some rough estimates, 1 out of every 200 children on this small island have just died from measles - a vaccine preventable disease. let that sink in for a minute.

Offline CountValentine

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #2816 on: December 08, 2019, 05:12:00 PM »
Can we simply recognize that vaccines work, are important and that herd immunity does exist? That will be enough of a lesson from 60+ babies dying for today. Also based on some rough estimates, 1 out of every 200 children on this small island have just died from measles - a vaccine preventable disease. let that sink in for a minute.
My question is/was why such a high rate of death?
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Offline YankyDoodle

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #2817 on: December 08, 2019, 06:02:40 PM »
Based on prior US records, measles death rate is about 0.2%. About 5000 people have gotten measles in Samoa which would lead to an expected 10 deaths. The actual death rate is higher and can be explained off-hand by a number of possibilities. Random chance, more virulent strain, different genetics, lower proportion of population receiving at least 1 course of vaccine, higher death rates given that fewer ppl have been exposed recently as a result of better immunization campaigns (the 0.2% was from the 1980s), poorer health care facilities and capabilities, population hesitance to seek medical help amongst many other possibilities.

Offline CountValentine

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #2818 on: December 08, 2019, 06:12:57 PM »
Based on prior US records, measles death rate is about 0.2%.
Were you getting that from. Aren't measles deaths extremely rare now in the US?
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Offline YankyDoodle

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #2819 on: December 08, 2019, 06:21:52 PM »
Were you getting that from. Aren't measles deaths extremely rare now in the US?

“Death from measles was reported in approximately 0.2% of the cases in the United States from 1985 through 1992. As with other complications of measles, the risk of death is highest among young children and adults.”

* https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/pinkbook/meas.html