Vaccine Discussion Master Thread

[aygart]

Last 200 years. Obviously I forgot mention the role nutrition plays

So why did some take until the 1900s to disappear?

[aygart]

@Dan please put this back as its own post. No one is going to respond with a real answer in a decade old thread

Plenty of threads older than that going strong.

[yelped]

You sound like a new convert who is frummer than the pope. I would take out popcorn and enjoy the show, but this is sad and it is dangerous for you, your family, and the community for you to be led astray by people who are (for lack of a more apt word) "metumtamim".

[Excalibur]

So why did some take until the 1900s to disappear?

which one?

[imayid2]

Gedolim with access to the best doctors in the world have to be aware of this and are not making the right choice. If I have figured it out, they already know.

The best doctors in the world are generally anti vax?

[Excalibur]

You sound like a new convert who is frummer than the pope. I would take out popcorn and enjoy the show, but this is sad and it is dangerous for you, your family, and the community for you to be led astray by people who are (for lack of a more apt word) "metumtamim".

The federal government let 10-20M people illegally enter the country in the middle of a “Pandemic” without checking vaccine status. If you really thought me not vaccinating a couple kids is threat to the community, I imagine you’re having panic attacks from all the polio measles and Covid that walked across the border the past four years.


It’s actually this logic that doesn’t pass a simple kal vchomer which shocks me.

[Excalibur]

The best doctors in the world are generally anti vax?

I can’t imagine a top doctor would recommend the hep b after birth for a frum family.

[imayid2]

I’m looking to reconcile the failure of Jewish leadership to protect parents rights and come out against vaccine requirements in schools. I’m not a scientist or doctor, and I’ve read an immense amount on this issue and there is no evidence vaccines are safe, effective, or can take credit for getting rid of any disease. Engineers, clean water, and indoor plumbing are the real heroes here.

Why did polio reduce dramatically after the vaccine was introduced?

[imayid2]

I can’t imagine a top doctor would recommend the hep b after birth for a frum family.

So no true top doctor would recommend vaccines, therefore all top doctors are anti vax, if I am understanding this correctly.

[Chilla]

RFK Junior, who is the head of Hhs Has stated that the rise and autism began in 1989 preceded by the vaccine indemnification by Congress in 1986. He’s playing politics and running all the double blind controlled placebo studies that have never been done before and is gonna wait until he has his gold standard science to reveal to the world.

Interesting that you see it that way.
I would say the opposite: I would trust his findings after these studies, and am hopeful that precisely because he's doing it right, many who would otherwise dismiss it as quack medicine, will accept and agree with the findings, thereby restoring trust in the scientific and medical fields.

Btw, your passion is commendable.
Just keep an open mind, and keep learning.

[imayid2]

My Posek agrees with me, but refuses to come out and take a position due to the backlash they would receive. I can’t get exemptions at my kids school and I’m absolutely distraught by what I perceive to be as a failure of the Jewish leadership to take a strong position on endorsing parent autonomy in making decisions for their own children.

How do I reconcile this with emunas chachamim? It’s clearly not a conspiracy theory that vaccines cause neurological damage, proper safety testing was never done, and quite frankly they simply don’t work as well as governmental agencies pretend they do. Furthermore, as we have seen recently with the COVID vaccine, all vaccine immunity wanes and therefore the illusion of herd immunity through vaccines is ridiculous. So why make the kids whose parents don’t want their kids to have them, mandate compulsory vaccination? How did this happen in the Jewish community where we just let the government dictate parental decisions for a frum household!? What would happen if they banned Milah? This issue has shaken my emunah and I’m honestly looking for advice. I could excuse it when autism was 1/10,000 or 1/1,000. It’s now 1 in 31 children. When will enough be enough?

Lets say you are correct and all these Rabbis are profoundly wrong. We can go the holocaust route and say that sometimes there is a הסתר דבר where Hashem hides things from Gedolim and they are unable to see the truth.

Sort of a גזירה מן שמים that our generation got hoodwinked by the science of vaccines.

[Excalibur]

Lets say you are correct and all these Rabbis are profoundly wrong. We can go the holocaust route and say that sometimes there is a הסתר דבר where Hashem hides things from Gedolim and they are unable to see the truth.

Sort of a גזירה מן שמים that our generation got hoodwinked by the science of vaccines.

sadly, this gave me menuchas hanefesh. Thanks for taking the time to think about this.

[Excalibur]

Why did polio reduce dramatically after the vaccine was introduced?

Elimination of DDT, changes in diagnostic criteria, and polio is still alive and well. In fact, paralyzing polio is still present in countries manufacturing DDT - see dissolving illusions by Susan Humphries. Her interview on Rogan is linked above ( or on prior page)


Here’s a 15 minute clip https://youtu.be/1199cr2IiC8?si=rdqqK28keKcZlZfj

[AsherO]

Israel is going to be running a vaccination campaign for measles (חצבת) with 48 cases reported.

[imayid2]

Elimination of DDT, changes in diagnostic criteria, and polio is still alive and well. In fact, paralyzing polio is still present in countries manufacturing DDT - see dissolving illusions by Susan Humphries. Her interview on Rogan is linked above ( or on prior page)


Here’s a 15 minute clip https://youtu.be/1199cr2IiC8?si=rdqqK28keKcZlZfj

Polio outbreaks predated DDT. Also, DDT was only banned in 1972, which was way after polio was dramatically reduced.

Isn’t it much more logical to think that the vaccine played a role here?

[Excalibur]

Polio outbreaks predated DDT. Also, DDT was only banned in 1972, which was way after polio was dramatically reduced.

Isn’t it much more logical to think that the vaccine played a role here?

My answer is a summary of the video I posted, which is Susan Humphries explaining what she details with citations on every page. Please watch the clip

There was a 1919 polio outbreak just like our modern day covid which caused the most neurologically damaging version of polio and attenuated as it moved through the population. Humphries explanation of polio is close to 100 pages in her book.

[Euclid]

FYI it's Suzanne

[Excalibur]

FYI it's Suzanne

thanks!

[imayid2]

There was a 1919 polio outbreak just like our modern day covid which caused the most neurologically damaging version of polio and attenuated as it moved through the population. Humphries explanation of polio is close to 100 pages in her book.

This doesn't pass the smell test.

GIFY
Year   Reported Cases   Notes
1935   ~8,000   Typical low year
1936   ~2,500   Sudden drop
1937   ~10,000+   Large jump again
1942   ~4,000   Low point
1943   ~12,000   Cases triple
1949   ~42,000   Huge epidemic year
1950   ~33,000   Drop
1951   ~28,000   Slight drop
1952   ~58,000   All-time high
1953   ~35,000   Natural drop (but still very high)

Why did immediately after the vaccine did it drop by 90 percent and stay down? I would have an emunas chachamim crisis if there were big Rabbis who believed the vaccine played no role.

[yawn]

changes in diagnostic criteria,

Alol that you’re using this argument for polio but not autism.