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The wiki is divided into groups for "fact" and "opinion." Please feel free to add whichever facts you know and opinions you have. Please try to avoid cluttering the wiki with unnecessary information such as outside links.

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Facts
The flu vaccine causes more deaths per year than chicken pox.
The direct injection of RSV immunoglobulin, commonly known as the "RSV vaccine" would prevent 16x more deaths than the flu vaccine does, but is too expensive.
There is a vaccine for the plague, and that is why it is no longer an epidemic.
Ebola is caused by vaccines.
There is a vaccine for autism, but it causes mumps.


Opinions
Vaccines do not contain thimerosal, a known toxin.
If you snuck up on your neighbor's kid and cut open his skull, you would be arrested.  But when brain surgeons do it, and charge hundreds of thousands of dollars, it considered "medicine."
99% of vaccines do not cause autism (HT JJ1000).
Every pedi has seen healthy kids become sick physically & mentally hours after a vax (HT Baryochai)
Vaccines cause cancer, infertility, astma, adhd etc (HT Baryochai)

Author Topic: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread  (Read 784621 times)

Offline Yehuda57

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #3200 on: May 20, 2025, 07:04:21 AM »
FYI it's Suzanne

Now do the radio announcer for the Yankees with the last name Waldman

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Re: Dissolving Illusions Susan Humphries
« Reply #3201 on: May 20, 2025, 07:59:54 AM »
Alol that you’re using this argument for polio but not autism.

What diagnostic criteria changed for autism?

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Re: Dissolving Illusions Susan Humphries
« Reply #3202 on: May 20, 2025, 08:07:26 AM »
This doesn't pass the smell test.

GIFY
Year   Reported Cases   Notes
1935   ~8,000   Typical low year
1936   ~2,500   Sudden drop
1937   ~10,000+   Large jump again
1942   ~4,000   Low point
1943   ~12,000   Cases triple
1949   ~42,000   Huge epidemic year
1950   ~33,000   Drop
1951   ~28,000   Slight drop
1952   ~58,000   All-time high
1953   ~35,000   Natural drop (but still very high)

Why did immediately after the vaccine did it drop by 90 percent and stay down? I would have an emunas chachamim crisis if there were big Rabbis who believed the vaccine played no role.

Grokked it for you - Also if you’re gonna take the time to respond to me, watch the 15 minute video I provided otherwise don’t waste my time. If you’re not gonna look at the information I provide you to actually debunk it then you’re not contributing anything just stating your opinion without looking at the facts or the information I provided is how homeless people at a bus station argue about which sandwich at The gas station taste better

After the polio vaccine was introduced in 1955 (inactivated polio vaccine, or IPV, developed by Jonas Salk), significant changes were made to the diagnostic criteria for poliomyelitis in the United States, which some, like Dr. Suzanne Humphries in the referenced video, argue contributed to a perceived decline in polio cases. Below are the key changes to the diagnostic criteria, based on available information:
   1   Stricter Case Definition:
   ◦   Pre-Vaccine Era (Before 1955): Prior to the vaccine, a diagnosis of paralytic poliomyelitis could be made based on clinical symptoms alone, such as fever, muscle weakness, or paralysis, often without laboratory confirmation. Non-paralytic polio was diagnosed with symptoms like fever, sore throat, or muscle pain, even if transient.
   ◦   Post-Vaccine Era (After 1955): The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) and other health authorities tightened the criteria. A case of paralytic polio required confirmation of paralysis lasting at least 60 days after onset, with residual paralysis still present at follow-up. This excluded cases where paralysis was temporary or resolved quickly, reducing the number of reported polio cases.
   2   Laboratory Confirmation:
   ◦   After 1955, laboratory testing to confirm the presence of poliovirus became more common. Cases without virological or serological evidence of poliovirus infection were less likely to be classified as polio. This was a shift from earlier practices where clinical presentation alone was often sufficient for diagnosis.
   ◦   The increased use of lab testing helped distinguish polio from other enteroviral infections or conditions with similar symptoms, such as Guillain-Barré syndrome or aseptic meningitis.
   3   Reclassification of Similar Conditions:
   ◦   Diseases like coxsackievirus infections, echovirus infections, and other enteroviral diseases, which can mimic polio symptoms, were more frequently identified and separated from polio diagnoses due to improved diagnostic techniques. For example, what was once called “non-paralytic polio” might now be diagnosed as aseptic meningitis caused by other viruses.
   ◦   Dr. Humphries and some sources claim that this reclassification led to a significant drop in reported polio cases, as conditions previously labeled as polio were now categorized differently. For instance, Humphries references a 1950s study suggesting that up to 90% of polio cases might have been reclassified after these diagnostic changes.
   4   Surveillance and Reporting Changes:
   ◦   The National Foundation for Infantile Paralysis and the CDC implemented more rigorous surveillance systems post-vaccine. This included stricter guidelines for reporting polio cases to ensure consistency. Cases not meeting the new criteria were excluded from official polio statistics, which critics argue artificially lowered reported incidence.
Context and Controversy:
   •   Pro-Vaccine Perspective: Public health authorities attribute the decline in polio cases primarily to the widespread use of the Salk vaccine (IPV) and later the Sabin oral polio vaccine (OPV). Improved sanitation and hygiene also played a role in reducing poliovirus transmission. The diagnostic changes are seen as a refinement of medical understanding, ensuring more accurate identification of true polio cases.
   •   Skeptical Perspective (e.g., Dr. Humphries): Critics argue that these diagnostic shifts exaggerated the vaccine’s impact by reducing reported polio cases independently of vaccine efficacy. They point to environmental factors (e.g., reduced DDT exposure) and reclassification as significant contributors to the decline.
Evidence and Limitations:
   •   Data from the CDC shows polio cases in the U.S. dropped from 35,000 in 1953 to 5,300 by 1957, post-vaccine. While this aligns with vaccine rollout, the tightened criteria likely contributed to lower reported numbers.
   •   Historical records confirm the diagnostic changes, particularly the 60-day paralysis rule, as noted in medical literature from the time (e.g., CDC’s Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Reports).
   •   However, claims like those from Humphries lack peer-reviewed consensus and may overstate the impact of diagnostic changes compared to vaccination and sanitation improvements.
For a deeper understanding, you can review primary sources like CDC archives or medical journals from the 1950s, available through academic databases, or cross-reference with WHO’s polio eradication documentation. If you’d like me to search for specific studies or posts on X to further clarify these changes, let me know!

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #3203 on: May 20, 2025, 08:08:52 AM »
I think the real reason that people refused to look at the data or look at this with an open mind to only see the facts is the same way that the people doing gender, reassignment surgery to their kids will never admit that they were wrong because it’s a terrible thing that’s being done

I have vaccinated and unvaccinated kids and their health status is drastically different

Offline AsherO

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #3204 on: May 20, 2025, 08:18:52 AM »
Grokked it for you - Also if you’re gonna take the time to respond to me, watch the 15 minute video I provided otherwise don’t waste my time. If you’re not gonna look at the information I provide you to actually debunk it then you’re not contributing anything just stating your opinion without looking at the facts or the information I provided is how homeless people at a bus station argue about which sandwich at The gas station taste better

After the polio vaccine was introduced in 1955 (inactivated polio vaccine, or IPV, developed by Jonas Salk), significant changes were made to the diagnostic criteria for poliomyelitis in the United States, which some, like Dr. Suzanne Humphries in the referenced video, argue contributed to a perceived decline in polio cases. Below are the key changes to the diagnostic criteria, based on available information:
   1   Stricter Case Definition:
   ◦   Pre-Vaccine Era (Before 1955): Prior to the vaccine, a diagnosis of paralytic poliomyelitis could be made based on clinical symptoms alone, such as fever, muscle weakness, or paralysis, often without laboratory confirmation. Non-paralytic polio was diagnosed with symptoms like fever, sore throat, or muscle pain, even if transient.
   ◦   Post-Vaccine Era (After 1955): The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) and other health authorities tightened the criteria. A case of paralytic polio required confirmation of paralysis lasting at least 60 days after onset, with residual paralysis still present at follow-up. This excluded cases where paralysis was temporary or resolved quickly, reducing the number of reported polio cases.
   2   Laboratory Confirmation:
   ◦   After 1955, laboratory testing to confirm the presence of poliovirus became more common. Cases without virological or serological evidence of poliovirus infection were less likely to be classified as polio. This was a shift from earlier practices where clinical presentation alone was often sufficient for diagnosis.
   ◦   The increased use of lab testing helped distinguish polio from other enteroviral infections or conditions with similar symptoms, such as Guillain-Barré syndrome or aseptic meningitis.
   3   Reclassification of Similar Conditions:
   ◦   Diseases like coxsackievirus infections, echovirus infections, and other enteroviral diseases, which can mimic polio symptoms, were more frequently identified and separated from polio diagnoses due to improved diagnostic techniques. For example, what was once called “non-paralytic polio” might now be diagnosed as aseptic meningitis caused by other viruses.
   ◦   Dr. Humphries and some sources claim that this reclassification led to a significant drop in reported polio cases, as conditions previously labeled as polio were now categorized differently. For instance, Humphries references a 1950s study suggesting that up to 90% of polio cases might have been reclassified after these diagnostic changes.
   4   Surveillance and Reporting Changes:
   ◦   The National Foundation for Infantile Paralysis and the CDC implemented more rigorous surveillance systems post-vaccine. This included stricter guidelines for reporting polio cases to ensure consistency. Cases not meeting the new criteria were excluded from official polio statistics, which critics argue artificially lowered reported incidence.
Context and Controversy:
   •   Pro-Vaccine Perspective: Public health authorities attribute the decline in polio cases primarily to the widespread use of the Salk vaccine (IPV) and later the Sabin oral polio vaccine (OPV). Improved sanitation and hygiene also played a role in reducing poliovirus transmission. The diagnostic changes are seen as a refinement of medical understanding, ensuring more accurate identification of true polio cases.
   •   Skeptical Perspective (e.g., Dr. Humphries): Critics argue that these diagnostic shifts exaggerated the vaccine’s impact by reducing reported polio cases independently of vaccine efficacy. They point to environmental factors (e.g., reduced DDT exposure) and reclassification as significant contributors to the decline.
Evidence and Limitations:
   •   Data from the CDC shows polio cases in the U.S. dropped from 35,000 in 1953 to 5,300 by 1957, post-vaccine. While this aligns with vaccine rollout, the tightened criteria likely contributed to lower reported numbers.
   •   Historical records confirm the diagnostic changes, particularly the 60-day paralysis rule, as noted in medical literature from the time (e.g., CDC’s Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Reports).
   •   However, claims like those from Humphries lack peer-reviewed consensus and may overstate the impact of diagnostic changes compared to vaccination and sanitation improvements.
For a deeper understanding, you can review primary sources like CDC archives or medical journals from the 1950s, available through academic databases, or cross-reference with WHO’s polio eradication documentation. If you’d like me to search for specific studies or posts on X to further clarify these changes, let me know!


Per the forum rules, please don’t post AI-generated content in non-AI threads.
DDF FFB (Forum From Birth)

Offline imayid2

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Re: Dissolving Illusions Susan Humphries
« Reply #3205 on: May 20, 2025, 08:20:06 AM »
Grokked it for you - Also if you’re gonna take the time to respond to me, watch the 15 minute video I provided otherwise don’t waste my time. If you’re not gonna look at the information I provide you to actually debunk it then you’re not contributing anything just stating your opinion without looking at the facts or the information I provided is how homeless people at a bus station argue about which sandwich at The gas station taste better

After the polio vaccine was introduced in 1955 (inactivated polio vaccine, or IPV, developed by Jonas Salk), significant changes were made to the diagnostic criteria for poliomyelitis in the United States, which some, like Dr. Suzanne Humphries in the referenced video, argue contributed to a perceived decline in polio cases. Below are the key changes to the diagnostic criteria, based on available information:
   1   Stricter Case Definition:
   ◦   Pre-Vaccine Era (Before 1955): Prior to the vaccine, a diagnosis of paralytic poliomyelitis could be made based on clinical symptoms alone, such as fever, muscle weakness, or paralysis, often without laboratory confirmation. Non-paralytic polio was diagnosed with symptoms like fever, sore throat, or muscle pain, even if transient.
   ◦   Post-Vaccine Era (After 1955): The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) and other health authorities tightened the criteria. A case of paralytic polio required confirmation of paralysis lasting at least 60 days after onset, with residual paralysis still present at follow-up. This excluded cases where paralysis was temporary or resolved quickly, reducing the number of reported polio cases.
   2   Laboratory Confirmation:
   ◦   After 1955, laboratory testing to confirm the presence of poliovirus became more common. Cases without virological or serological evidence of poliovirus infection were less likely to be classified as polio. This was a shift from earlier practices where clinical presentation alone was often sufficient for diagnosis.
   ◦   The increased use of lab testing helped distinguish polio from other enteroviral infections or conditions with similar symptoms, such as Guillain-Barré syndrome or aseptic meningitis.
   3   Reclassification of Similar Conditions:
   ◦   Diseases like coxsackievirus infections, echovirus infections, and other enteroviral diseases, which can mimic polio symptoms, were more frequently identified and separated from polio diagnoses due to improved diagnostic techniques. For example, what was once called “non-paralytic polio” might now be diagnosed as aseptic meningitis caused by other viruses.
   ◦   Dr. Humphries and some sources claim that this reclassification led to a significant drop in reported polio cases, as conditions previously labeled as polio were now categorized differently. For instance, Humphries references a 1950s study suggesting that up to 90% of polio cases might have been reclassified after these diagnostic changes.
   4   Surveillance and Reporting Changes:
   ◦   The National Foundation for Infantile Paralysis and the CDC implemented more rigorous surveillance systems post-vaccine. This included stricter guidelines for reporting polio cases to ensure consistency. Cases not meeting the new criteria were excluded from official polio statistics, which critics argue artificially lowered reported incidence.
Context and Controversy:
   •   Pro-Vaccine Perspective: Public health authorities attribute the decline in polio cases primarily to the widespread use of the Salk vaccine (IPV) and later the Sabin oral polio vaccine (OPV). Improved sanitation and hygiene also played a role in reducing poliovirus transmission. The diagnostic changes are seen as a refinement of medical understanding, ensuring more accurate identification of true polio cases.
   •   Skeptical Perspective (e.g., Dr. Humphries): Critics argue that these diagnostic shifts exaggerated the vaccine’s impact by reducing reported polio cases independently of vaccine efficacy. They point to environmental factors (e.g., reduced DDT exposure) and reclassification as significant contributors to the decline.
Evidence and Limitations:
   •   Data from the CDC shows polio cases in the U.S. dropped from 35,000 in 1953 to 5,300 by 1957, post-vaccine. While this aligns with vaccine rollout, the tightened criteria likely contributed to lower reported numbers.
   •   Historical records confirm the diagnostic changes, particularly the 60-day paralysis rule, as noted in medical literature from the time (e.g., CDC’s Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Reports).
   •   However, claims like those from Humphries lack peer-reviewed consensus and may overstate the impact of diagnostic changes compared to vaccination and sanitation improvements.
For a deeper understanding, you can review primary sources like CDC archives or medical journals from the 1950s, available through academic databases, or cross-reference with WHO’s polio eradication documentation. If you’d like me to search for specific studies or posts on X to further clarify these changes, let me know!
Are you claiming that the vaccine didn’t do anything?  Because those changes can’t account for the numbers.

Why did countries who did not change their diagnostics also experience a dramatic drop after vaccination campaigns, such as India?

(I saw most of the video and did not hear this addressed )

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #3206 on: May 20, 2025, 08:25:27 AM »
which one?

You tell me. There are about 20 different diseases that were previously common and no longer are. Each one dropped dramatically at a different time closely correlated to vaccine introduction. If there reason is running water then why didn't they all disappear together? Why did each one take the amount of time it did?
Feelings don't care about your facts

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #3207 on: May 20, 2025, 08:37:00 AM »
You tell me. There are about 20 different diseases that were previously common and no longer are. Each one dropped dramatically at a different time closely correlated to vaccine introduction. If there reason is running water then why didn't they all disappear together? Why did each one take the amount of time it did?

They basically all did drop at the same time.
The clearest example is measles. Vaccine came out in 1963. Deaths from measles had already dropped to 300-400 in 1962

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #3208 on: May 20, 2025, 08:47:34 AM »
Is there a way to add another poll to an existing thread?

Can someone put up a new multi option poll on:
 "Do you vaccinate your children?"

A. Yes, the full schedule (or most - i.e. all minus covid, flu, STD, etc.)
B. None
C. Some / on my own schedule


And I would be curios about another poll...
"Do you know 1st hand (or 2nd hand reliably) of any of the following?"

A. Someone who was hospitalized, became very ill, or died from a vaccine preventable disease (and was NOT vaccinated against it)?
B. Someone who was hospitalized, became very ill, had a SERIOUS side affect, or died from receiving a vaccine?
C. Both
D. Neither
Bump?

I am genuinely curious about this. 1st hand info without so-called medical mafia slant.

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #3209 on: May 20, 2025, 08:50:09 AM »
I have vaccinated and unvaccinated kids and their health status is drastically different

Hopefully I'm not getting too personal, but did you experience some health challenges in your older kids which caused you to not vaccinate the younger ones?
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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #3210 on: May 20, 2025, 08:55:59 AM »
They basically all did drop at the same time.
The clearest example is measles. Vaccine came out in 1963. Deaths from measles had already dropped to 300-400 in 1962

what about measles cases? just because they were able to prevent death (CFR) does not mean it wasn't spreading rampantly.

Have you done the homework I assigned?
first read this https://text.apic.org/toc then we'll talk
Because you still seem to think that proper sewage treatment blocks an airborne illness. This is like trying to stop a fighter jet with a landmine.

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #3211 on: May 20, 2025, 08:58:16 AM »

And I would be curios about another poll...
"Do you know 1st hand (or 2nd hand reliably) of any of the following?"

A. Someone who was hospitalized, became very ill, or died from a vaccine preventable disease (and was NOT vaccinated against it)?
B. Someone who was hospitalized, became very ill, had a SERIOUS side affect, or died from receiving a vaccine?
C. Both
D. Neither
Yes to A (many) no to B (not even 1)

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #3212 on: May 20, 2025, 08:58:47 AM »
Hopefully I'm not getting too personal, but did you experience some health challenges in your older kids which caused you to not vaccinate the younger ones?

Yes. But also, the amount of kids in each classroom of my kids with neurological/developmental issues lead me to read Brian hooker and RFk book. The increase in add, autism, antibiotic use, asthma and eczema I’m witnessing w my own eyes sealed the deal for me. Autism used to be one kid in a school. I’m seeing one in a classroom w my own eyes concurrent with CDC data

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #3213 on: May 20, 2025, 09:00:41 AM »
Autism went up drastically when DSM5 reclassified Asperger's as autism.

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #3214 on: May 20, 2025, 09:06:23 AM »
Yes. But also, the amount of kids in each classroom of my kids with neurological/developmental issues lead me to read Brian hooker and RFk book. The increase in add, autism, antibiotic use, asthma and eczema I’m witnessing w my own eyes sealed the deal for me. Autism used to be one kid in a school. I’m seeing one in a classroom w my own eyes concurrent with CDC data
Before addressing any of your arguments.

Let me start off by saying, I'm sorry you have health problems in your family.

Health is the biggest bracha/test Hashem can give us.

That said, I think the users' question goes to whether someone dealing with personal emotional issues can truly have a logical discussion when at the end of the day, everyone is biased and someone dealing with a health issue personally will have a hard time being objective.

Additionally, based on your COVID comments, it sounds like you are from NYC and if you had lived in FL your views may also be very different.

No doubt COVID sowed a lot of distrust due to overzealous political mandates. BH FL wasn't affected like other places.

All that said, everyone is entitled to their opinions, only Hashem knows the truth, everything has good and bad, and at the end of the day only Torah is truth. No need to doubt Hashem because of the opinions and actions of man. No matter who the man is.
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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #3215 on: May 20, 2025, 09:08:31 AM »
what about measles cases? just because they were able to prevent death (CFR) does not mean it wasn't spreading rampantly.

Have you done the homework I assigned? Because you still seem to think that proper sewage treatment blocks an airborne illness. This is like trying to stop a fighter jet with a landmine.

Why vaccinate against a disease that isn’t deadly?

Homework you assigned? Hope you don’t speak this way in person.

If you’re ignoring clean water access, indoor plumbing and basic hand washing as contributors to increased health outcomes that is willfully ignorant. The fact that we knew no longer use horses as a primary method of transportation through the cities as they poop all along the streets alone is enough to make this argument.

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Re: Dissolving Illusions Susan Humphries
« Reply #3216 on: May 20, 2025, 09:10:22 AM »
What diagnostic criteria changed for autism?
It’s changed multiple times, at this point picking your nose in public qualifies as on the spectrum and gets government funded special ed.

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #3217 on: May 20, 2025, 09:17:17 AM »

Homework you assigned? Hope you don’t speak this way in person.

Also if you’re gonna take the time to respond to me, watch the 15 minute video I provided otherwise don’t waste my time.
Is this how you talk in person?

You just don't like the word homework? Or maybe what we see in others is what we hide in ourselves.

Don't want to derail this with personal things. But if you are going to call people out for talking a certain way, please don't do the same thing yourself a few posts earlier.
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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #3218 on: May 20, 2025, 09:17:27 AM »
Why vaccinate against a disease that isn’t deadly?


What does that have to do with whether or not it is effective?
Feelings don't care about your facts

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #3219 on: May 20, 2025, 09:21:52 AM »
They basically all did drop at the same time.
The clearest example is measles. Vaccine came out in 1963. Deaths from measles had already dropped to 300-400 in 1962

This is simply not true. Some diseases dropped in the early 1900s when those vaccines were developed, some in the 40s, some in the 50, some in the 60s, all the way to Heppatitis in the 80s.

Running water was around well before the mid-60s
Feelings don't care about your facts