Topic Wiki

The wiki is divided into groups for "fact" and "opinion." Please feel free to add whichever facts you know and opinions you have. Please try to avoid cluttering the wiki with unnecessary information such as outside links.

Please do not delete anything from this wiki.  If you disagree with an opinion, feel free to post your own. If you disagree with a fact--well, that's your opinion, and feel free to post it under opinions!

Facts
The flu vaccine causes more deaths per year than chicken pox.
The direct injection of RSV immunoglobulin, commonly known as the "RSV vaccine" would prevent 16x more deaths than the flu vaccine does, but is too expensive.
There is a vaccine for the plague, and that is why it is no longer an epidemic.
Ebola is caused by vaccines.
There is a vaccine for autism, but it causes mumps.


Opinions
Vaccines do not contain thimerosal, a known toxin.
If you snuck up on your neighbor's kid and cut open his skull, you would be arrested.  But when brain surgeons do it, and charge hundreds of thousands of dollars, it considered "medicine."
99% of vaccines do not cause autism (HT JJ1000).
Every pedi has seen healthy kids become sick physically & mentally hours after a vax (HT Baryochai)
Vaccines cause cancer, infertility, astma, adhd etc (HT Baryochai)

Poll

Did You Get The Flu Vaccine This Winter?

Yes (Shot)
112 (38.6%)
Yes (Nasal Spray)
5 (1.7%)
No
173 (59.7%)

Total Members Voted: 289

Author Topic: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread  (Read 200193 times)

Offline henche

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #495 on: January 16, 2014, 11:00:43 AM »
I'm not suspicious of drug companies: they don't hide their agenda, they are out to make money.
I'm suspicious of govt departments who say they have my interest in mind, but then hide or obfuscate information. Because I can't tell which team they're on.

Offline Yehuda57

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #496 on: January 16, 2014, 11:47:05 AM »
I'm not suspicious of drug companies: they don't hide their agenda, they are out to make money.
I'm suspicious of govt departments who say they have my interest in mind, but then hide or obfuscate information. Because I can't tell which team they're on.

Do you trust your doctor's suggestions? Seriously, not being sarcastic.

Everyone is out to make money. Whether it is drug companies, used car salesmen or lawyers. The key is to find a professional that you trust. The same is true for doctors. I find it strange that people will obviously defer to their lawyers', pilots' and accountants' expertise, but when it comes to medical issues? Mommy bloggers seem to be trusted way more than knowledgeable, credentialed doctors.
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Offline henche

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #497 on: January 16, 2014, 12:02:38 PM »
Do you trust your doctor's suggestions? Seriously, not being sarcastic.

Everyone is out to make money. Whether it is drug companies, used car salesmen or lawyers. The key is to find a professional that you trust. The same is true for doctors. I find it strange that people will obviously defer to their lawyers', pilots' and accountants' expertise, but when it comes to medical issues? Mommy bloggers seem to be trusted way more than knowledgeable, credentialed doctors.

I expect all of them to explain competing risks to me if it is something ill be able to somewhat understand and make the decision I'm comfortable with. Do you think your lawyer just decides on his own what to file?

Offline YankyDoodle

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #498 on: January 16, 2014, 12:05:03 PM »
I expect all of them to explain competing risks to me if it is something ill be able to somewhat understand and make the decision I'm comfortable with. Do you think your lawyer just decides on his own what to file?

Every doctor I know does that. I would be shocked if they did not give you a paper (or at least a short shpiel) with the risks and possible side effects of a procedure. Major grounds for lawsuit and loss of licensure.

I'm suspicious of govt departments who say they have my interest in mind, but then hide or obfuscate information. Because I can't tell which team they're on.

The CDC and other govt agencies job is very clear, minimize public health risks. Doctors generally don't have this mentality (although they occasionally overlap).

Offline Yehuda57

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #499 on: January 16, 2014, 12:13:51 PM »
I expect all of them to explain competing risks to me if it is something ill be able to somewhat understand and make the decision I'm comfortable with. Do you think your lawyer just decides on his own what to file?

1000% - I trust my doctor because he explains and gives me the options. We're probably in agreement. But far too many people go in to the doctor's office with a NO EVIL DRUG COMPANY PRODUCTS NEAR MY CHILD attitude which is both harmful to them and the community.

It's sad to me that doctors have to be almost apologetic and ask if you will allow them to treat your children the way they have been trained to, or if you would rather listen to crunchy moms on the internet.
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Offline henche

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #500 on: January 16, 2014, 12:39:10 PM »

The CDC and other govt agencies job is very clear, minimize public health risks.

That isn't very clear at all. I'm not even sure I know what it means.

And I think most people read CDC advice and assume it is advice that is best for them personally.

Offline Yehuda57

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #501 on: January 16, 2014, 12:41:59 PM »
That isn't very clear at all. I'm not even sure I know what it means.

And I think most people read CDC advice and assume it is advice that is best for them personally.

I wouldn't assume most people read CDC advice at all!  ;)
Quote from: ExGingi
[Stating things eloquently] seems to be Yehuda57's job around here :)

Offline YankyDoodle

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #502 on: January 16, 2014, 12:45:30 PM »
That isn't very clear at all. I'm not even sure I know what it means.

And I think most people read CDC advice and assume it is advice that is best for them personally.

You know exactly what that means as you've aptly indicated in your earlier comments. It is a utilitarian view on the health of all people living in America. This is typically how government works in general. Is it best for you that the speed limit is 35? It would be anarchy if there were no regulations or guidelines but it would be best for me if I could drive any speed I want. As with most things in life we have to give (in the form or responsibilities) if we want to take (in the form of rights). The difference is that with healthcare there is a lot more concern for the negative consequences (and rightfully so), shortsighted as they might be.


Offline henche

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #503 on: January 16, 2014, 12:50:53 PM »
You know exactly what that means as you've aptly indicated in your earlier comments. It is a utilitarian view on the health of all people living in America. This is typically how government works in general. Is it best for you that the speed limit is 35? It would be anarchy if there were no regulations or guidelines but it would be best for me if I could drive any speed I want. As with most things in life we have to give (in the form or responsibilities) if we want to take (in the form of rights). The difference is that with healthcare there is a lot more concern for the negative consequences (and rightfully so), shortsighted as they might be.

Agreed. And I'm not advocating anyone break the law. And there's no law which says I need to get a flu vaccine.

Offline YankyDoodle

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #504 on: January 16, 2014, 01:10:20 PM »
Agreed. And I'm not advocating anyone break the law. And there's no law which says I need to get a flu vaccine.

All true, unfortunately common sense often cannot be mandated (and I'm not referring to the flu vaccine specifically).

Offline henche

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #505 on: January 16, 2014, 01:13:49 PM »
All true, unfortunately common sense often cannot be mandated (and I'm not referring to the flu vaccine specifically).

But see above, that you agreed it isn't necessarily common sense at the personal level?

Offline YankyDoodle

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #506 on: January 16, 2014, 01:15:48 PM »
But see above, that you agreed it isn't necessarily common sense at the personal level?
All true, unfortunately common sense often cannot be mandated (and I'm not referring to the flu vaccine specifically).
See bolded quote.
I was speaking in generalities.

Offline henche

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #507 on: January 16, 2014, 01:36:44 PM »
Ahh, gotcha.

Offline Barryg

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #508 on: January 17, 2014, 02:38:49 AM »
@ YankyDoodle, will respond, eventually, no time before Shabbos, sorry about the delay...

Offline Dan

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #509 on: January 17, 2014, 01:46:15 PM »


Let's all skip the flu shot and dress more modestly, that ought to do it!

Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.