Topic Wiki

The wiki is divided into groups for "fact" and "opinion." Please feel free to add whichever facts you know and opinions you have. Please try to avoid cluttering the wiki with unnecessary information such as outside links.

Please do not delete anything from this wiki.  If you disagree with an opinion, feel free to post your own. If you disagree with a fact--well, that's your opinion, and feel free to post it under opinions!

Facts
The flu vaccine causes more deaths per year than chicken pox.
The direct injection of RSV immunoglobulin, commonly known as the "RSV vaccine" would prevent 16x more deaths than the flu vaccine does, but is too expensive.
There is a vaccine for the plague, and that is why it is no longer an epidemic.
Ebola is caused by vaccines.
There is a vaccine for autism, but it causes mumps.


Opinions
Vaccines do not contain thimerosal, a known toxin.
If you snuck up on your neighbor's kid and cut open his skull, you would be arrested.  But when brain surgeons do it, and charge hundreds of thousands of dollars, it considered "medicine."
99% of vaccines do not cause autism (HT JJ1000).
Every pedi has seen healthy kids become sick physically & mentally hours after a vax (HT Baryochai)
Vaccines cause cancer, infertility, astma, adhd etc (HT Baryochai)

Poll

Did You Get The Flu Vaccine This Winter?

Yes (Shot)
115 (37.7%)
Yes (Nasal Spray)
5 (1.6%)
No
185 (60.7%)

Total Members Voted: 304

Author Topic: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread  (Read 262294 times)

Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #630 on: March 27, 2014, 09:21:00 AM »
Not a simple Q...I did, but I was not told exactly what you posted above.The problem is that not every reliable halachic opinion has a reliable opinion of their own on the subject of vaccines. They will, therefore, most likely side with the majority of the world (or speak with a doctor or two from their congregation, who most likely will side with the majority of the world). If the same Rav would have 9 (pro-vaccine) doctors give their opinion, and also listen to the 1 (let's say a DO), but the Rav would actually know that there were two valid sides in the discussion - there would very likely be a different answer, now that the Rav can have a thought out opinion on the subject.
Also, let's say someone had asked Rav Elyashiv an all or nothing Shayla. (I never heard or saw Tshuva from him, I'm going off what churnbabychurn said.) "Am I a responsible parent if I never give my child a vaccine, period. None, never, under no circumstance. I read an article that they might cause autism..." Now, I'd hope, any Rav would ________ and tell him, ushmartem me'od l'nafshosechem.
If, someone asked a Rav "Am I a responsible parent, if I have some concerns with vaccines after doing much research, speaking with many professionals on the subject and coming to the following compromise. I'd prefer not to give some vaccines which some doctors say are unnecessary (like flu, chicken pox, and hep b at birth), I'd also prefer not to give 22 vaccines to my baby before age 1, so I'd want to postpone certain vaccines - which the diseases are pretty much eradicated - until later (ex after age 5 when there is nothing on the schedule). Not so sure the Rav will say that you are "mazik es harabim"+1
-1

There are very clear halachic precedences about which doctors opinions one must halachically follow. Rabbonim have been dealing with medical shailos for thousands of years. The halacha is that one must follow the orders of the vast majority of doctors.

There are also very clear halachic guidelines regarding what level of risk one may accept re the mitzva of venishmartem. This applies to ones choice of career and which medicine to take. The Halacha is that a Hezek sheino matzui, shkevar doshu bo rabbim is not considered a risk.


Offline Achas Veachas

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #631 on: March 27, 2014, 09:27:23 AM »
Can any one offer a thorough Halachic view on vaccines??
For anyone looking for the Chabad angle here are 2 letters from The Rebbe:

Quote from: Igros Kodesh, Vol. 14, p. 357
... Regarding your question about vaccination against disease:

I am surprised by your question, since so many individuals from Eretz Yisrael have asked me about this and I have answered them in the affirmative, since the overwhelming majority of individuals do so successfully.

Understandably, if there are vaccines that are produced by various drug-manufacturing companies, you should use the ones whose safety is tried and proven.

Quote from: Igros Kodesh, Vol. 14, p. 343
... Regarding your question about vaccination against disease and that which unfortunately transpired in the United States some time back:

The event that occurred in the United States was at the beginning of the use of these vaccines, before the [exact] medical compound was definitively established. This is not the case at present after months of experience with the vaccine.

Therefore once a vaccine's reliability is firmly established, there should be no hesitation in giving these inoculations. To the contrary, [their use should be encouraged].

Offline YankyDoodle

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #632 on: March 27, 2014, 09:43:04 AM »
For anyone looking for the Chabad angle here are 2 letters from The Rebbe:

Thanks for sharing this! Couldn't agree more (not that the Rebbe needed my agreement).

Online TimT

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #633 on: March 27, 2014, 10:05:04 AM »
For anyone looking for the Chabad angle here are 2 letters from The Rebbe:
Brilliant words of wisdom from the rebbe.

Offline henche

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #634 on: March 27, 2014, 12:01:09 PM »
Ok, how many of the people on this thread gave their daughters the HPV vaccine?

Offline Barryg

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #635 on: March 27, 2014, 12:03:00 PM »
@ Achas Veachas
Would you be able to quote the question that was asked to the Rebbe as well. Thanks...

Offline Achas Veachas

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #636 on: March 27, 2014, 12:13:15 PM »
@ Achas Veachas
Would you be able to quote the question that was asked to the Rebbe as well. Thanks...
No, the letters in Igros Kodesh are just the letters The Rebbe wrote without the questions people sent in (those were destroyed for privacy concerns), but being that you asked I decided to look up the original letter in the Igros Kodesh and found it to be much stroger then the quote I brought so here is the letter in full:
Quote from: אגרות קודש חלק י"ד אגרת ה'קל"א
ב"ה, ח"י שבט, תשי"ז

ברוקלין.

שלום וברכה!

מאשר הנני קבלת מכתבו מי"א שבט (והקודמו) וממהר הנני לענות עליו שלא בתור אפילו של מכתבים התכופים מפני ענין הזריקות לחיסון, אף שלפלא שאלתו בזה שהרי כמה מאה"ק כבר שאלוני ועניתי להם בחיוב כיון שכאן עושים זה רובם ככולם ובהצלחה, ומובן שבאם ישנם זריקות מתוצרת בתי סממני רפואה שונים צריך להשתמש בזו הבדוקה ומנוסה.

Offline YankyDoodle

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #637 on: March 27, 2014, 12:42:05 PM »
Ok, how many of the people on this thread gave their daughters the HPV vaccine?
Weak comparison.
1. It's "relatively" new
2. The disease is able to treated through other methods (regular Pap smear)
3. the risk of cancer is (generally) a slow onset.
4. With all that said, if anyone had any serious concern that their daughter is being promiscuous, I would strongly recommend it.

Offline henche

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #638 on: March 27, 2014, 12:43:26 PM »
Weak comparison.
1. It's "relatively" new
2. The disease is able to treated through other methods (regular Pap smear)
3. the risk of cancer is (generally) a slow onset.
4. With all that said, if anyone had any serious concern that their daughter is being promiscuous, I would strongly recommend it.

1. CDC, AMA, everyone, recommend it. Are you telling me you know better? That you have inside information that is personal to you?

Offline YankyDoodle

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #639 on: March 27, 2014, 12:46:12 PM »
but being that you asked I decided to look up the original letter in the Igros Kodesh and found it to be much stroger then the quote I brought
The Rebbe was not naive, he understood the idea of side effects and medicine better than most. Despite that, in 1957 he recognized the importance of vaccines! I would venture to say that most people who lived through that time period and had seen the horrors of these diseases would have a similar opinion.

Offline YankyDoodle

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #640 on: March 27, 2014, 12:50:14 PM »
1. CDC, AMA, everyone, recommend it. Are you telling me you know better? That you have inside information that is personal to you?
Yes, I do know better. I know how to use my brain. I didn't get it for my daughter the same way I didn't give her a Hep B vaccine in the hospital. When you understand the risks involved and how diseases can be contracted you can make educated decisions. Unfortunately the large majority of Americans are not like that and the authorities understand that and do the best they can. for most people who are going to have multiple sexual partners it is a great vaccine. Statistically it has not proven to be far better then the pap smear yet (but again it is still a young vaccine and they are determining the need for boosters etc).  Most people cannot be trusted to get annual pap smears so again the CDC has no choice but to try to push people towards the vaccine which is the best decision for most people!

Offline henche

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #641 on: March 27, 2014, 12:53:42 PM »
Yes, I do know better. I know how to use my brain. I didn't get it for my daughter the same way I didn't give her a Hep B vaccine in the hospital. When you understand the risks involved and how diseases can be contracted you can make educated decisions. Unfortunately the large majority of Americans are not like that and the authorities understand that and do the best they can. for most people who are going to have multiple sexual partners it is a great vaccine. Statistically it has not proven to be far better then the pap smear yet (but again it is still a young vaccine and they are determining the need for boosters etc).  Most people cannot be trusted to get annual pap smears so again the CDC has no choice but to try to push people towards the vaccine which is the best decision for most people!

Why? its free with insurance. And there are no risks.

Offline YankyDoodle

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #642 on: March 27, 2014, 01:01:47 PM »
Why? its free with insurance. And there are no risks.

Nothing in life is free...

I never said there are no risks and I doubt anyone respectable said that either. There are always risks.

Offline henche

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #643 on: March 27, 2014, 01:03:36 PM »
Nothing in life is free...

I never said there are no risks and I doubt anyone respectable said that either. There are always risks.

They say that all the time. It's been linked in this thread

Offline YankyDoodle

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #644 on: March 27, 2014, 01:52:41 PM »
They say that all the time. It's been linked in this thread
That there is absolutely no risk? Come on. No one believes that you get a shot of a foreign substance in your arm and there is absolutely no risk. There is always the very uncommon risk of anaphylactic shock if nothing else.

I've made this point multiple times before. Just gotta use some common sense sometimes.