Topic Wiki

The wiki is divided into groups for "fact" and "opinion." Please feel free to add whichever facts you know and opinions you have. Please try to avoid cluttering the wiki with unnecessary information such as outside links.

Please do not delete anything from this wiki.  If you disagree with an opinion, feel free to post your own. If you disagree with a fact--well, that's your opinion, and feel free to post it under opinions!

Facts
The flu vaccine causes more deaths per year than chicken pox.
The direct injection of RSV immunoglobulin, commonly known as the "RSV vaccine" would prevent 16x more deaths than the flu vaccine does, but is too expensive.
There is a vaccine for the plague, and that is why it is no longer an epidemic.
Ebola is caused by vaccines.
There is a vaccine for autism, but it causes mumps.


Opinions
Vaccines do not contain thimerosal, a known toxin.
If you snuck up on your neighbor's kid and cut open his skull, you would be arrested.  But when brain surgeons do it, and charge hundreds of thousands of dollars, it considered "medicine."
99% of vaccines do not cause autism (HT JJ1000).
Every pedi has seen healthy kids become sick physically & mentally hours after a vax (HT Baryochai)
Vaccines cause cancer, infertility, astma, adhd etc (HT Baryochai)

Poll

Did You Get The Flu Vaccine This Winter?

Yes (Shot)
115 (37.7%)
Yes (Nasal Spray)
5 (1.6%)
No
185 (60.7%)

Total Members Voted: 304

Author Topic: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread  (Read 263191 times)

Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #645 on: March 27, 2014, 02:49:21 PM »
That there is absolutely no risk? Come on. No one believes that you get a shot of a foreign substance in your arm and there is absolutely no risk. There is always the very uncommon risk of anaphylactic shock if nothing else.

I've made this point multiple times before. Just gotta use some common sense sometimes.
I do! Risk of allergic reaction is not classified as a vaccine risk. Its a general risk of life.

Offline henche

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #646 on: March 27, 2014, 03:06:34 PM »
That there is absolutely no risk? Come on. No one believes that you get a shot of a foreign substance in your arm and there is absolutely no risk. There is always the very uncommon risk of anaphylactic shock if nothing else.

I've made this point multiple times before. Just gotta use some common sense sometimes.

But the NYC Department of health disagrees and says there is "no risk"

Offline YankyDoodle

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #647 on: March 27, 2014, 10:09:27 PM »
But the NYC Department of health disagrees and says there is "no risk"
where does it say that? From what I could find, they put a link to CDC in the site http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd-vac/hpv/vac-faqs.htm which clearly discusses the potential (albeit minor) known risks of the vaccine.

Offline Achas Veachas

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #648 on: March 30, 2014, 08:50:32 PM »

Offline bigmoish

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #649 on: March 31, 2014, 10:57:03 AM »
Did anyone see the add  offering nice $ to find a Doctor ready to debate Anti vaccine MD

Offline YankyDoodle

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #650 on: March 31, 2014, 12:29:13 PM »
Did anyone see the add  offering nice $ to find a Doctor ready to debate Anti vaccine MD
It's stupid. These concepts are too challenging for an audience to follow and determine a winner based on actual facts. Studies cannot be thrown at each other for analysis during the debate, they need to be studied and picked apart long before. Whoever is the better (more convincing) speaker will win every time.

@ThinkTwice This was discussed a couple of pages back. If you want to rehash this conversation first look there and respond in kind.

Since when is NYC a source of truth, the claim bris milah is unsafe but immoralty should be protected with the $ the collect from our tickets/fines
Wow, that's a lot of concepts jumbles together. I was simply responding to a statement by Henche (implying that the govt. is tricking everybody) that govt. websites claim vaccines are 100% safe which is untrue.
« Last Edit: March 31, 2014, 12:34:27 PM by YankyDoodle »

Offline TimT

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #651 on: March 31, 2014, 12:33:20 PM »
It's stupid. These concepts are too challenging for an audience to follow and determine a winner based on actual facts. Studies cannot be thrown at each other for analysis during the debate, they need to be studied and picked apart long before. Whoever is the better (more convincing) speaker will win every time.

@ThinkTwice This was discussed a couple of pages back. If you want to rehash this conversation first look there and respond in kind.
Wow, that's a lot of concepts jumbles together. I was simply responding to a statement by Henche that govt. websites claim vaccines are 100% safe which is untrue.
+100

Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #652 on: March 31, 2014, 12:43:57 PM »
#Yankedoodle, you keep implying that vaccines are not 100% safe. Can you please share one reasonably proven risk of vaccines besides for an allergic reaction?
TIA!

Offline Achas Veachas

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #653 on: March 31, 2014, 12:52:12 PM »
By a fellow DDFer...

http://collive.com/show_news.rtx?id=29712&alias=anti-vaccine-calls-and-halacha

A story from one of the comments:
Quote
Here's a story I heard from Rabb Gluckowsky in Israel which relates to the question of Western vs. Alternative medicine.
A young man in Rechovot, Israel, had a growth on his face. The doctors confirmed that it was cancerous and insisted that it be surgically removed. He went to an alternative healer who said that he could treat it with medicinal creams. But despite the fact that he started using the creams, the tumor continued to grow. The healer said that the continued growth was a sign that the illness was coming out of his body, and that he would soon be healed. The doctors said that if he didn't cut it out, he would die.
Upon the insistence of the young man's wife, Rabbi Gluckowsky got involved and prevailed upon the young man to write to the Rebbe for advice. The young man agreed to follow the Rebbe's instructions, whatever they would be.
The Rebbe's response was that they should seek the counsel of an established halachic authority (k'atzat moreh hora'ah muvhak). After thinking the response through, they decided to consult with Rabbi Shlomo Zalman Auerbach, of blessed memory, a world-renowned halachic expert who specialized in halachic questions relating to medical matters. They spoke to Rabbi Auerbach and presented the two options of treatment.
Rabbi Auerbach said that generally the Torah allows one to choose which form of treatment one wishes to use. However, when it is a life or death matter, and the two forms of treatment are mutually exclusive, then the Torah gives primacy to the form of treatment that is used by a majority of people (in accordance with the principle of acharei rabim lehatot follow the majority), which today would mean Western medicine.As he had agreed he would, the patient accepted this decision and had the growth surgically removed. After this, the doctors recommended a course of radiation to ensure that the cancer would not spread.
On the Motzay Shabbos before his last treatment, Rabbi Gluckowsky and the young man went together to the Western Wall to thank Hashem for healing him. There they saw Rabbi Auerbach. They approached him and thanked him for his counsel, and told him that there was only one radiation treatment left and then the patient would be considered healed.
Rabbi Auerbach, who generally never acted with any airs of being a rebbe or tzaddik, took the young man's hand in his two hands and said, "Men darf nisht, men darf nisht" (it's not necessary, it's not necessary). And indeed it wasn't.
Aryeh Citron

Offline YankyDoodle

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #654 on: March 31, 2014, 01:01:01 PM »
#Yankedoodle, you keep implying that vaccines are not 100% safe. Can you please share one reasonably proven risk of vaccines besides for an allergic reaction?
TIA!
Here is a sample of side effects from MMR vaccine. From: http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vac-gen/side-effects.htm#mmr
Mild Problems
    Fever (up to 1 person out of 6)
    Mild rash (about 1 person out of 20)
    Swelling of glands in the cheeks or neck (about 1 person out of 75)
Moderate Problems
    Seizure (jerking or staring) caused by fever (about 1 out of 3,000 doses)
    Temporary pain and stiffness in the joints, mostly in teenage or adult women (up to 1 out of 4)
    Temporary low platelet count, which can cause a bleeding disorder (about 1 out of 30,000 doses)
Severe Problems (Very Rare)
    Serious allergic reaction (less than 1 out of a million doses)
    Several other severe problems have been reported after a child gets MMR vaccine, including:
    Deafness
    Long-term seizures, coma, or lowered consciousness
    Permanent brain damage
    These are so rare that it is hard to tell whether they are caused by the vaccine.

There is also a small risk of anaphylaxis. These by no means outweigh the risk of not vaccinating, but to pretend that there is zero chance of any reaction (i.e. 100% safe) is untrue and enhances the belief that we (medical community) are part of an elaborate cover-up.

Offline YankyDoodle

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #655 on: March 31, 2014, 01:03:51 PM »
A story from one of the comments:
Beautiful story, not sure I follow the ending though.

Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #656 on: March 31, 2014, 02:37:13 PM »
The mild and moderate categories are temporary discomforts and would not be classified as a "risk"- fever is not "Risky". Its just uncomfortable.
The severe problems are basically just an allergic reaction.

In other words: No Risks. AKA 100% safe. Thank you.

Offline YankyDoodle

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #657 on: March 31, 2014, 02:43:06 PM »
The mild and moderate categories are temporary discomforts and would not be classified as a "risk"- fever is not "Risky". Its just uncomfortable.
The severe problems are basically just an allergic reaction.

In other words: No Risks. AKA 100% safe. Thank you.
I'm not gonna have a discussion if there's nobody home. Low platelets and seizures are not simply temporary discomforts. They are potentially very dangerous (as unlikely as it may be it still constitutes a risk that people have a right to know about). A chance of deafness or permanent brain damage don't mean anything to you. The point is you are injecting yourself with a foreign body. It is for a very good cause (much like surgery to remove a tumor is a good cause) but it still has it's share of risks. Anything can happen.

Oh and why do you consider anaphylaxis to be no big deal? Have you ever seen it or been affected? I can't believe you are making me argue the risks of vaccines (which I consider one of the most important breakthroughs in modern medicine).

Offline jaywhy

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #658 on: March 31, 2014, 02:51:44 PM »
The mild and moderate categories are temporary discomforts and would not be classified as a "risk"- fever is not "Risky". Its just uncomfortable.
The severe problems are basically just an allergic reaction.

In other words: No Risks. AKA 100% safe. Thank you.
The fact that you are arguing that vaccines are safer than the CDC says they are is so sad that it almost becomes absurdly hilarious.

Offline YankyDoodle

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #659 on: March 31, 2014, 02:53:21 PM »
The fact that you are arguing that vaccines are safer than the CDC says they are is so sad that it almost becomes absurdly hilarious.
+1 first thing we've agreed on all thread!