Topic Wiki

The wiki is divided into groups for "fact" and "opinion." Please feel free to add whichever facts you know and opinions you have. Please try to avoid cluttering the wiki with unnecessary information such as outside links.

Please do not delete anything from this wiki.  If you disagree with an opinion, feel free to post your own. If you disagree with a fact--well, that's your opinion, and feel free to post it under opinions!

Facts
The flu vaccine causes more deaths per year than chicken pox.
The direct injection of RSV immunoglobulin, commonly known as the "RSV vaccine" would prevent 16x more deaths than the flu vaccine does, but is too expensive.
There is a vaccine for the plague, and that is why it is no longer an epidemic.
Ebola is caused by vaccines.
There is a vaccine for autism, but it causes mumps.


Opinions
Vaccines do not contain thimerosal, a known toxin.
If you snuck up on your neighbor's kid and cut open his skull, you would be arrested.  But when brain surgeons do it, and charge hundreds of thousands of dollars, it considered "medicine."
99% of vaccines do not cause autism (HT JJ1000).
Every pedi has seen healthy kids become sick physically & mentally hours after a vax (HT Baryochai)
Vaccines cause cancer, infertility, astma, adhd etc (HT Baryochai)

Poll

Did You Get The Flu Vaccine This Winter?

Yes (Shot)
115 (37.5%)
Yes (Nasal Spray)
5 (1.6%)
No
187 (60.9%)

Total Members Voted: 305

Author Topic: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread  (Read 307147 times)

Online Yehuda57

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #740 on: April 10, 2014, 09:43:03 AM »
Products which strongly recommended by doctors but later shown to be extremely hazardous to human health.
Just remember. History always repeats itself.


It seems those are all commercials - not necessarily practices approved by the medical community at the time, though they may have been. Yes, medical knowledge changes and evolves based on evidence - as does all science. Bring evidence, and the medical community will change its mind.

To quote noted thinker, philosopher and barefoot sage, Tim Minchin, "Do you know what they call alternative medicine with evidence? Medicine."
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Offline Chaikel

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #741 on: April 10, 2014, 09:45:53 AM »
Find a doctor you trust - excellent advice

Simple Google searches can also help inform the public about precautions. Granted some of them can be total garbage. You can still find plenty of info without delving into research because chances are someone has already done so.
Yes. Google is a great tool for medical research. In fact I recommend having major heart surgury by someone who looked it up on google.
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Offline gavhaller

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #742 on: April 10, 2014, 09:49:20 AM »
Yes. Google is a great tool for medical research. In fact I recommend having major heart surgury by someone who looked it up on google.
Not the smartest comment. Doing research on something is hardly comprable to heart surgery. Noones saying not to do it on the forum. Were just saying do research. Wouldn't you want to know the pros and con's of having a knee replacement. Half of orthopedic surgeons would be glad to cut your knee off- they make 7000 depending on the insurance payouts.
Everything's a business

Offline Menachem613

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #743 on: April 10, 2014, 09:50:10 AM »
Slightly off topic, but was wondering whether anyone on this thread that is anti-vax, also believes in homeopathy.

Online Yehuda57

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #744 on: April 10, 2014, 09:50:22 AM »
Doing your own research  allows you to start asking the right questions.
You don't need a medical degree for that.

Are you searching for the right questions to ask, or searching for answers? If a patient ASKS the doctor based on Googling, fine. The problem is far too many are negating advice and endangering the community based on ANSWERS they found on Google.
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Offline Chaikel

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #745 on: April 10, 2014, 09:52:37 AM »
Not the smartest comment. Doing research on something is hardly comprable to heart surgery. Noones saying not to do it on the forum. Were just saying do research. Wouldn't you want to know the pros and con's of having a knee replacement. Half of orthopedic surgeons would be glad to cut your knee off- they make 7000 depending on the insurance payouts.
Everything's a business
I'm sorry to disagree with the ingenuity of your comment. Doing medical research on google?
The good news is due to natural selection this notion will be gone soon enough
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Online Yehuda57

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #746 on: April 10, 2014, 09:54:08 AM »
Yes. Google is a great tool for medical research. In fact I recommend having major heart surgury by someone who looked it up on google.

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Offline Achas Veachas

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #747 on: April 10, 2014, 09:55:19 AM »
Find a doctor you trust - excellent advice

Simple Google searches can also help inform the public about precautions. Granted some of them can be total garbage. You can still find plenty of info without delving into research because chances are someone has already done so.
and you would trust "someone" on the internet's research over your doctor's?

Offline YankyDoodle

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #748 on: April 10, 2014, 09:55:42 AM »
Did you ever compare Autism rates amongst vaxed kids vs unvaxed
Dude, not even going to try to back up your previous statement? That's been a consistent problem on this forum (aside for a small minority), people throw in their opinions and then walk away without feeling compelled to back it up in any way.

Offline YankyDoodle

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #749 on: April 10, 2014, 09:57:13 AM »
Products which strongly recommended by doctors but later shown to be extremely hazardous to human health.
Just remember. History always repeats itself.
These are BS and have absolutely no relevance to doctors or the discussion at hand. Therefore I'm not at all surprised to see it trying to be used to prove that vaccines are dangerous, brilliant  ::)

Online Yehuda57

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #750 on: April 10, 2014, 09:57:34 AM »

Everything's a business

No, only drug companies and doctors are in it for the money. Naturalists, homeopaths and chiropractors are doing it for the good of the people.
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Offline Achas Veachas

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #751 on: April 10, 2014, 10:02:37 AM »
satisticly homebirths done by a pro like 15,000 by Dr Mayer Eisenstein have the have the highest safety record

Statistically, mother's who home birth at at the lowest risk for complications, if there is the slightest risk for complications no one would agree to home birth them...

Paroh wanted to kill us Rahsbam says vaya'as lohem botim means a building (hospital) by which he could stop the midwives from visiting mothers @ home

Didn't see the Rashbam in question but vaya'as Lahem Batim is talking about Hashem not Paroh...


Offline jaywhy

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #752 on: April 10, 2014, 10:03:05 AM »
I'm sorry to disagree with the ingenuity of your comment. Doing medical research on google?
The good news is due to natural selection this notion will be gone soon enough
The internet's power of information dissemination as a great equalizer is not limited to overthrowing Muslim dictators.
Are you not aware of the fact that every medical database is available on the internet?
No one is suggesting to base your health decisions off what you find online.
But what you find online can empower you to ask tough questions from your health professional.

And your comment about natural selection is callous and completely uncalled for.

Offline jaywhy

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #753 on: April 10, 2014, 10:06:29 AM »
These are BS and have absolutely no relevance to doctors or the discussion at hand. Therefore I'm not at all surprised to see it trying to be used to prove that vaccines are dangerous, brilliant  ::)
What about them is BS?
All are products which were recommended by doctors and later shown to be hazardous.
Not using it as an argument that vaccines are dangerous. Just using it as reminder that medicine and science are constantly evolving and what is considered safe and effective may turn out to be hazardous.

Offline jaywhy

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #754 on: April 10, 2014, 10:09:38 AM »
satisticly homebirths done by a pro like 15,000 by Dr Mayer Eisenstein have the have the highest safety record

Paroh wanted to kill us Rahsbam says vaya'as lohem botim means a building (hospital) by which he could stop the midwives from visiting mothers @ home

That was the government against us "pen yirbe" , he would bathe  in babies blood (Rashi )

the oir hachaim explains how he 1st planned to kill babies @ birth & convince the mothers that it is a ...coincidence
Dude, if you want to participate in this discussion, please write in a language we can all understand.

Offline YankyDoodle

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #755 on: April 10, 2014, 10:09:48 AM »
@YD, Let's bring this up again because you totally blew this off last time.  :)
http://forums.dansdeals.com/index.php?topic=24137.msg630419#msg630419The point of those studies was to show:  A) That there is a statistically significant elevation in immune system abnormalities and emergency room visits with heavily vaccinated children.
B) That the sharp increase in ASD prevalence should not be attributed solely to better diagnostic tools/methods, which is a popular claim of people trying to explain away that increase. Remember, we are talking about a prevalence of 1 in 88 children today as opposed to 1 in 10,000 twenty years ago.

Big mistake. Thimerosal is still used in the majority of today's flu shots as well as the Td vaccine so I think these studies are still very relevant.
Either way, something that we were told for years was safe has been shown to neurodevelopmental deficiencies and was hence removed from most vaccines. Are we not justified in questioning everything else that we are told is perfectly safe?
Have you considered that the reason autism rates have only kept going up since the removal of thimerosal from most vaccines is because it's been replaced with an even more potent neurotoxin, Aluminum? 
You know a lot better than I do how much harder it is to prove causation from an established correlation but it is evident that there is research to be done and tough questions that need to asked by every parent before they blindly agree to the what and how often of the current vaccine schedule.
Not sure if you're serious but I did not blow you off, in fact I responded to every "study" that you quoted and asked for access to the other studies that you quoted because I could not view them. I'm still waiting for those full studies.

As I said those last studies that you quoted are not studies or have no mention of vaccines. Either quote me something from the study or move on.

Regarding the thimerosal studies, like I mentioned I could not view them and asked you for access to them (because you obviously studied them prior to posting  ::)) You can question anything you like, but you better have some proof before signing death sentences for hundreds of thousands of people. Do you really want everyone to stop using vaccines entirely? Yes, I (as well as many respected researchers) have considered the possible risks of aluminum and have concluded that it is a necessary adjuvant for vaccines that does not appear to increase the risk of morbidity and mortality in the patients.

Research has been done regarding vaccine safety. Hundreds of them on millions of children. No one wants parents to blindly follow the doctors, but would you rather them blindly follow conspiracy theorists (like you apparently do)?

Doing your own research  allows you to start asking the right questions.
You don't need a medical degree for that.
I am a father. I choose to vaccinate my daughter. Do you think that I don't ask the same questions you do? Believe me I do as does every other doctor with children. We came to the conclusion that we would rather trust what we see with the studies than try to bury our head in the sand and blame illnesses on the closest scapegoat.

Offline gavhaller

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #756 on: April 10, 2014, 10:12:10 AM »
No, only drug companies and doctors are in it for the money. Naturalists, homeopaths and chiropractors are doing it for the good of the people.
I'm so confused as to whether this is sarcastic or not.
I learned in school last semester about false advertising for lipitor. There old advertisement said something about a 30% decrease in cholesterol. It also had an asterisk next to it - with a description in the bottom "nnt=120" number needed to treat
Basically that meant 1 out of 120 people would see a decrease in cholesterol levels approximated to 30%

Offline gavhaller

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #757 on: April 10, 2014, 10:16:52 AM »
Also, no one on this thread (at least not me) is trying to bash anybody for using vaccines. I'm fully vaccinated also. Its just what happens especially with regulations in schools these days its impossible to get in without proper medical immunizations.
Research is essential. Nobody likes being ignorant. Sometimes its easier though honestly. Noones saying that your ignorant for not doing research but it can't help to be on top of the latest, especially if there were once negative reports on it.

Online Yehuda57

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #758 on: April 10, 2014, 10:17:35 AM »
I'm so confused as to whether this is sarcastic or not.
I learned in school last semester about false advertising for lipitor. There old advertisement said something about a 30% decrease in cholesterol. It also had an asterisk next to it - with a description in the bottom "nnt=120" number needed to treat
Basically that meant 1 out of 120 people would see a decrease in cholesterol levels approximated to 30%

Yes, it was sarcastic. What does Lipitor playing with numbers IN A COMMERCIAL have anything to do with this?
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Offline YankyDoodle

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #759 on: April 10, 2014, 10:18:17 AM »
What about them is BS?
All are products which were recommended by doctors and later shown to be hazardous.
Not using it as an argument that vaccines are dangerous. Just using it as reminder that medicine and science are constantly evolving and what is considered safe and effective may turn out to be hazardous.
Everything about how you are using them is BS. the overwhelming majority of doctors recommended 7-UP as a diet supplement? Did they also do hundreds of studies to prove that cigarettes were safe? Every point you made was deceitful (if not by you then by the website that you copied it from) and incorrect. The only accurate point is that medicine and science is always a work in progress. It has always found a way to correct itself when errors were found. Vaccines have been tested for a long time and they have consistently proven to be an effective method that has saved millions of lives with limited risk. If this were ever proven to be otherwise, medicine would evolve like it always does.