Topic Wiki

The wiki is divided into groups for "fact" and "opinion." Please feel free to add whichever facts you know and opinions you have. Please try to avoid cluttering the wiki with unnecessary information such as outside links.

Please do not delete anything from this wiki.  If you disagree with an opinion, feel free to post your own. If you disagree with a fact--well, that's your opinion, and feel free to post it under opinions!

Facts
The flu vaccine causes more deaths per year than chicken pox.
The direct injection of RSV immunoglobulin, commonly known as the "RSV vaccine" would prevent 16x more deaths than the flu vaccine does, but is too expensive.
There is a vaccine for the plague, and that is why it is no longer an epidemic.
Ebola is caused by vaccines.
There is a vaccine for autism, but it causes mumps.


Opinions
Vaccines do not contain thimerosal, a known toxin.
If you snuck up on your neighbor's kid and cut open his skull, you would be arrested.  But when brain surgeons do it, and charge hundreds of thousands of dollars, it considered "medicine."
99% of vaccines do not cause autism (HT JJ1000).
Every pedi has seen healthy kids become sick physically & mentally hours after a vax (HT Baryochai)
Vaccines cause cancer, infertility, astma, adhd etc (HT Baryochai)

Poll

Did You Get The Flu Vaccine This Winter?

Yes (Shot)
84 (37.2%)
Yes (Nasal Spray)
5 (2.2%)
No
137 (60.6%)

Total Members Voted: 225

Author Topic: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread  (Read 129232 times)

Offline HelpMe

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Re: Did You Get The Flu Vaccine This Winter?
« Reply #75 on: January 12, 2013, 08:13:27 PM »
I wonder if Elvis and JFK received their flu shots this year.  ::) ::) ::)
"Elvis Has Left The Building"

Offline Barryg

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Re: Did You Get The Flu Vaccine This Winter?
« Reply #76 on: January 12, 2013, 10:22:15 PM »
I was not going to get in to this but you mentioned it so here goes:
As religious Jews we believe in hashgacha, that life and death are in his hands. We are supposed to trust in G-d, have Bitachon that he will protect us. We must also do some Hishtadlus to take care of ourselves. After all it is the "world of action".
The question is how much can we rely on g-d verses "taking care of ourselves.
The accepted principle in halacha and hashkafa is called "shomer pesoim Hashem", this means that as long as what we are doing is considered the "norm" we don't have to worry about extreme occurrences. EG. Its ok to drive a car even though there are inherent dangers in driving a car. Its ok to let kids run and play, we dont have to obsessively worry that they may get hit bay a car and keep them locked up as this is the normal  way of the world.
Therefore since vaccinations are generally considered safe, and they are safely used by a vast majority of normal people, from a Halachic and hashkafic point of view one does not need to be concerned, even if there is a possibility of some risk.
It also happens to be that I personally know of someone who asked a very big leading halachic authority about shots, he said one must vaccinate and one is not permitted to be afraid of some not general accepted concern. One who does not vaccinate and causes others harm is responsible.

If it were only so simple... It's a lot more common than you think to question vaccines. It is becoming more and more popular. I am not saying not to vaccinate as that is probably not the safest thing to do. The question at hand is if you should vaccinate with the reg schedule, or give optional vaccines like flu and chicken pox. So far less than half the ppl that answered this poll had a flu shot (def not 99% yes)

Offline Barryg

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Re: Did You Get The Flu Vaccine This Winter?
« Reply #77 on: January 12, 2013, 10:26:44 PM »
Every Religious belief is a minority, christianity is a minority 1/3, islam is a minority 1.5/6, there is no majority. 99% of medical proffesionals say vaccines are safe and crucial!!

The percentage of orthodox jews in world (a fraction of 1%) vs. percentage of ppl who don't get a flu shot (maybe 40, 50, 60%).

Offline Barryg

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Re: Did You Get The Flu Vaccine This Winter?
« Reply #78 on: January 12, 2013, 10:56:36 PM »
Being vaccinated=Bad.
Melanoma=Good.

What a bunch of nuts.

This is a very good point...


Figures that neither of them are MDs...they're just in it for the money, and there's lots to be made off gullible conpiracy theorists. You've names 2 non-practicing "doctors" out of millions.  Who are both making millions more than their peers who they claim are just in it for the money...

http://scientopia.org/blogs/whitecoatunderground/2009/12/30/damned-lies-and-idiots/
http://www.chicagomag.com/Chicago-Magazine/February-2012/Dr-Joseph-Mercola-Visionary-or-Quack/
http://www.quackwatch.org/11Ind/mercola.html

They are both DO's http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctor_of_Osteopathic_Medicine
Scientopia- does not argue with facts, just a very low class bashing of Tenpenny. The guy he praises instead is Paul Offit who has said that a 2 month old can take 10,000 vaccines at once...
Chicagomag- praises Mercola most of the way, then concludes that he's a quack... Now that you showed this link, I'd like to point out that mercola.com gets 1.9 million unique visitor per month. (He may have a clue what he's talking about, and the holistic approach to health is a lot more popular than 99% vs 1%)

Btw I'm in the middle...

Offline Lamdan

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Re: Did You Get The Flu Vaccine This Winter?
« Reply #79 on: January 12, 2013, 11:01:57 PM »
My religious beliefs are also in the minority, yet I don't look at the other side, see that they are entire community and join... Concept of majority rules works in things like Halacha, G-d and Rabbi's never told me to go like majority in these matters. Anyways, please see the other side, and what they have to say, see if you find some parts to disagree with them (not me). Btw it's many more than 2, I just brought 2 sources that were helpful to me...
The percentage of orthodox jews in world (a fraction of 1%) vs. percentage of ppl who don't get a flu shot (maybe 40, 50, 60%).
Are you comparing that we orthodox jews have gone against 99% of the world for thousands of years, to going against the vast majority of vaccinaters? We stood up strong against majorities anti our religion, because our parents heard from their parents etc. that G-D told them directly in front of 600,000+ people that He is G-d and He is One, and that we will be his Chosen Nation forever, that's why we ignored the vast majorities. And you go and compare that to Dr. "Ten Pennies for your thoughts"?? No Shaychus!!!!
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Offline Barryg

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Re: Did You Get The Flu Vaccine This Winter?
« Reply #80 on: January 12, 2013, 11:10:10 PM »
Are you comparing that we orthodox jews have gone against 99% of the world for thousands of years, to going against the vast majority of vaccinaters? We stood up strong against majorities anti our religion, because our parents heard from their parents etc. that G-D told them directly in front of 600,000+ people that He is G-d and He is One, and that we will be his Chosen Nation forever, that's why we ignored the vast majorities. And you go and compare that to Dr. "Ten Pennies for your thoughts"?? No Shaychus!!!!

What I am comparing is that ppl here know they are right when it comes to religion, but we are for sure an extreme minority. It is therefore, no proof to me that the majority of Dr's recommend something. I can look into it and make my own decision. The # of Dr's doesn't scare me off.

Offline Barryg

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Re: Did You Get The Flu Vaccine This Winter?
« Reply #81 on: January 12, 2013, 11:11:21 PM »
Are you comparing that we orthodox jews have gone against 99% of the world for thousands of years, to going against the vast majority of vaccinaters? We stood up strong against majorities anti our religion, because our parents heard from their parents etc. that G-D told them directly in front of 600,000+ people that He is G-d and He is One, and that we will be his Chosen Nation forever, that's why we ignored the vast majorities. And you go and compare that to Dr. "Ten Pennies for your thoughts"?? No Shaychus!!!!

Mazel tov on post # 770!

Offline Lamdan

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Re: Did You Get The Flu Vaccine This Winter?
« Reply #82 on: January 12, 2013, 11:13:04 PM »
Mazel tov on post # 770!
lol, and it was a great post too.
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Offline Barryg

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Re: Did You Get The Flu Vaccine This Winter?
« Reply #83 on: January 12, 2013, 11:17:45 PM »
When there's a like button, I can come back and like even though it was questioning a comparison that I made...

Online moko

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Re: Did You Get The Flu Vaccine This Winter?
« Reply #84 on: January 12, 2013, 11:23:44 PM »
Our government and medical system isn't wasn't out to harm/kill the majority of us.
ftfy
pre obamacare :D

Offline Ergel

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Re: Did You Get The Flu Vaccine This Winter?
« Reply #85 on: January 12, 2013, 11:31:33 PM »
Life isn't about checking the boxes. Nobody cares.

Offline Barryg

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Re: Did You Get The Flu Vaccine This Winter?
« Reply #86 on: January 12, 2013, 11:35:53 PM »
When they started school, on average, maybe not... The two ppl in the discussion have my vote that they are smarter than the average MD (by far)...

Offline myb821

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Re: Did You Get The Flu Vaccine This Winter?
« Reply #87 on: January 12, 2013, 11:41:54 PM »
AKA, not smart enough to be a doctor
not true and insulting

Offline Barryg

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Re: Did You Get The Flu Vaccine This Winter?
« Reply #88 on: January 12, 2013, 11:55:18 PM »
My link was to wikipedia, if you look into link it shows that avg scores of ppl that were accepted to MD and DO schools and MD scores are higher. I didn't want to argue the assumption that MD's were smarter ON AVERAGE before entering med school. You can fight that fight if you want, but there are many more damaging assumptions made on this thread, so I let it be...

Online thaber

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Re: Did You Get The Flu Vaccine This Winter?
« Reply #89 on: January 13, 2013, 12:02:26 AM »
FWIW my kid's pediatrician was just telling my wife that he doesn't understand why people in the frm community aren't taking the flu vaccine already.
Says he's already seen three of the potentially fatal strain in his office this season, and the virus hasn't really hit CA yet.