Topic Wiki

The wiki is divided into groups for "fact" and "opinion." Please feel free to add whichever facts you know and opinions you have. Please try to avoid cluttering the wiki with unnecessary information such as outside links.

Please do not delete anything from this wiki.  If you disagree with an opinion, feel free to post your own. If you disagree with a fact--well, that's your opinion, and feel free to post it under opinions!

Facts
The flu vaccine causes more deaths per year than chicken pox.
The direct injection of RSV immunoglobulin, commonly known as the "RSV vaccine" would prevent 16x more deaths than the flu vaccine does, but is too expensive.
There is a vaccine for the plague, and that is why it is no longer an epidemic.
Ebola is caused by vaccines.
There is a vaccine for autism, but it causes mumps.


Opinions
Vaccines do not contain thimerosal, a known toxin.
If you snuck up on your neighbor's kid and cut open his skull, you would be arrested.  But when brain surgeons do it, and charge hundreds of thousands of dollars, it considered "medicine."
99% of vaccines do not cause autism (HT JJ1000).
Every pedi has seen healthy kids become sick physically & mentally hours after a vax (HT Baryochai)
Vaccines cause cancer, infertility, astma, adhd etc (HT Baryochai)

Poll

Did You Get The Flu Vaccine This Winter?

Yes (Shot)
115 (37.5%)
Yes (Nasal Spray)
5 (1.6%)
No
187 (60.9%)

Total Members Voted: 305

Author Topic: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread  (Read 307052 times)

Offline Yehuda57

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #800 on: April 10, 2014, 11:54:36 AM »
seems like an overload on an 8 week old child.

Is there any evidence to back that up? Any evidence that spacing out reduces the side effects you mentioned? Are there benefits to having them on schedule?

These are not sarcastic or rhetorical questions.
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Offline YankyDoodle

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #801 on: April 10, 2014, 11:55:53 AM »
Couldn't have said it better myself. Seriously, I tried.
Like I mentioned previously, I have absolutely no problem with this and also as I mentioned earlier in the thread I do the same thing myself (to an extent). there is a huge difference between intimating that "risks" of vaccines are possibly being covered up (what you implied) and being a smart patient and avoiding unnecessary risks (what CS1 and myself along with others have said).

Offline YankyDoodle

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #802 on: April 10, 2014, 11:57:05 AM »
Is there any evidence to back that up? Any evidence that spacing out reduces the side effects you mentioned? Are there benefits to having them on schedule?

These are not sarcastic or rhetorical questions.
From everything I've seen there is no evidence to back it up, but as it does not have any significant risks (generally speaking) I don't consider it to be a problem to let your parental instincts "protect" your baby from the load.

Offline Yehuda57

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #803 on: April 10, 2014, 12:05:09 PM »
From everything I've seen there is no evidence to back it up, but as it does not have any significant risks (generally speaking) I don't consider it to be a problem to let your parental instincts "protect" your baby from the load.

My personal instinct was also to delay and break them up. Tiny baby screaming in pain next to "huge" needles will do that to a parent. My doctor was also happy to go along with that. I think he may have just been relived we were vaccinating!
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Offline Chaikel

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #804 on: April 10, 2014, 12:06:27 PM »
I'm pretty sure that's incorrect. Source?
Again, source?

My point by posting those graphics was to remind us how something can from being recommended by doctors to being shown to be hazardous to human health. Nothing more.

Again. Source for what? That smoking tobacco was a homeopathic medicinal drug used by the Native Americans for hundreds of years before it was adopted by Western Medicine? I don't know that it's documented in medical journals, but it's pretty well documented in educational history text books
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Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #805 on: April 10, 2014, 12:08:24 PM »
Instincts! Seriously?

Offline YankyDoodle

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #806 on: April 10, 2014, 12:08:53 PM »
Fair enough. You can take out 7-Up, formula, and sugar.

But, cigarettes, cocaine, heroin, and DDT, are all things which were recommended by doctors at their time but later shown to very harmful to human health. Not sure what you find deceitful about that.
Where is your source that medicine overwhelmingly recommended these products? Where are the countless studies that were performed proving there safety and efficacy? I didn't live then, so I can't speak for medicine but before I am forced to defend or respond, I would like to see sources that these were actually "pushed" by medicine?

Offline YankyDoodle

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #807 on: April 10, 2014, 12:09:24 PM »
Instincts! Seriously?
Yes, if there is no harm done, what's the problem?

Offline YankyDoodle

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #808 on: April 10, 2014, 12:10:51 PM »
@Thinktwice @churn
It's amazing how we have the entire vaccine spectrum from the Rush Limbaughs to the Barack Obamas and everything in between!

Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #809 on: April 10, 2014, 12:14:04 PM »
Yes, if there is no harm done, what's the problem?
No problem.

You wanna make multiple trips to the doc (risk of picking up strep and viruses) instead of getting it all done at once, fine.

Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #810 on: April 10, 2014, 12:16:01 PM »
@Thinktwice @churn
It's amazing how we have the entire vaccine spectrum from the Rush Limbaughs to the Barack Obamas and everything in between!
Im not a kook. I just don't think that there is any room for discussion on this topic. Its not even debatable. You are from the rational ones here, and all you got for the other side is instincts.

Offline Yehuda57

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #811 on: April 10, 2014, 12:17:52 PM »
Instincts! Seriously?

You clearly missed the question of whether there is evidence to back up the instincts, and the fact that those who brought up instincts have been decidedly pro vaccinations on this thread.

My kid is being vaccinated on the prescribed schedule because instincts - not evidence - were the only thing stopping us.  But that doesn't mean you should knock parental instinct, or always stay on script, no matter the discussion.
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Offline YankyDoodle

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #812 on: April 10, 2014, 12:24:10 PM »
Im not a kook. I just don't think that there is any room for discussion on this topic. Its not even debatable. You are from the rational ones here, and all you got for the other side is instincts.
You are acting like a kook. The entire argument for vaccines is based on the soundness and breadth of the evidence in its favor and the dangers of not vaccinating. If you remove those two factors (there is no real evidence that I have seen indicating that it would be dangerous to stagger the vaccines slightly) then it is just silly to argue so vehemently against it. Might it put the children at greater risk of picking up a disease at the doctor's office? In the lack of compelling evidence, everyone can weigh the pros and cons and decide these things for themselves.

Offline gavhaller

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #813 on: April 10, 2014, 12:32:30 PM »
Like I mentioned previously, I have absolutely no problem with this and also as I mentioned earlier in the thread I do the same thing myself (to an extent). there is a huge difference between intimating that "risks" of vaccines are possibly being covered up (what you implied) and being a smart patient and avoiding unnecessary risks (what CS1 and myself along with others have said).
I wasnt trying to imply that they are covering things up. I implied and said that these things have happened in the past, so why not be cautious and try to do some research. There's a difference. I'd like to prevent problems. Not create them.

Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #814 on: April 10, 2014, 12:36:25 PM »
You are acting like a kook. The entire argument for vaccines is based on the soundness and breadth of the evidence in its favor and the dangers of not vaccinating. If you remove those two factors (there is no real evidence that I have seen indicating that it would be dangerous to stagger the vaccines slightly) then it is just silly to argue so vehemently against it. Might it put the children at greater risk of picking up a disease at the doctor's office? In the lack of compelling evidence, everyone can weigh the pros and cons and decide these things for themselves.
It sounds like your premise is that vaccines are risky, but the good out weighs the bad. Therefore you feel that staggering them mitigates risk.
My argument is, that vaccines carry such minimal risk, it doesn't even warrant the extra doc visit. There is literally nothing to be concerned about.

Offline YankyDoodle

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #815 on: April 10, 2014, 12:38:21 PM »
I wasnt trying to imply that they are covering things up. I implied and said that these things have happened in the past, so why not be cautious and try to do some research. There's a difference. I'd like to prevent problems. Not create them.
Fair enough I apologize, it seems I misunderstood you. I just get worked up because unfortunately there are uneducated people who "do their own research" and stop receiving vaccines based on online testimonials. Stupid is as stupid does I guess.

Offline YankyDoodle

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #816 on: April 10, 2014, 12:41:02 PM »
It sounds like your premise is that vaccines are risky, but the good out weighs the bad. Therefore you feel that staggering them mitigates risk.
My argument is, that vaccines carry such minimal risk, it doesn't even warrant the extra doc visit. There is literally nothing to be concerned about.
We've been down this road before... Anytime you put foreign stuff in your system it could be "risky". Compound that by putting it in a young baby and people have reason to be nervous. The evidence doesn't support it and therefore people would be crazy to put their babies at risk of vaccine-preventable diseases but to pretend that there is "literally nothing to be concerned about" is untrue for anything especially medication. There is always what to be concerned about.

Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #817 on: April 10, 2014, 12:43:44 PM »
We've been down this road before... Anytime you put foreign stuff in your system it could be "risky". Compound that by putting it in a young baby and people have reason to be nervous. The evidence doesn't support it and therefore people would be crazy to put their babies at risk of vaccine-preventable diseases but to pretend that there is "literally nothing to be concerned about" is untrue for anything especially medication. There is always what to be concerned about.
vaccines are just dead viruses. (Basically)
Its not some magic potion cooked up by a mad chemist in the basement of an enormous conglomerate owned by the CIA...

Offline Chaikel

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #818 on: April 10, 2014, 12:52:28 PM »
vaccines are just dead viruses. (Basically)
Its not some magic potion cooked up by a mad chemist in the basement of an enormous conglomerate owned by the CIA...
I thought it was by large corporations out to kill everyone just to make some money
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Offline Yehuda57

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #819 on: April 10, 2014, 12:55:46 PM »
I thought it was by large corporations out to kill everyone just to make some money

It is a conspiracy by the drug companies to get us to take just one or two doses of a vaccine to prevent us from getting sick so we don't need to use their medications for long periods of time.

Wait, someone needs to get fired.
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