Vaccine Discussion Master Thread

[noturbizniss]

I'm sure it was posted before, but even if vaccines do cause autism, cervical cancer or whatever other BS baryochai is spewing.... (contains a bit of profanity)

[aygart]

Minute 6 he admits that whatever they do now will probably be criminal in a few years

14.32  even if it is the norm, if u know its unsafe u may NOT do it

LOL are you going to answer what you meant earlier or now we should consider those debunked? Meanwhile you have not shown a reason to believe them to be unsafe at all, kal vachomer that YOU YOURSELF do not know them to be unsafe.

[ChaimMoskowitz]

@Baryochai - Is there any vaccinations you feel kids and or adults should get?

[skyguy918]

TATZ doesn't even know (or pretends ) that 1 autism study Doctor was exonerated , by British supreme court all trumped up charges were thrown out  of court

If you ever read the original lancet paper , all Wakefield wrote is that there may be a link, until we further investigate, we should use the old  3 individual vaccines

how can a frum Jew to lie in public & make such a chilul hashem

http://www.bbc.com/news/health-17283751

Once i caught him misinformed or misleading, why should i ever trust a single word he says?

http://www.ageofautism.com/2012/03/professor-john-walker-smith-exonerated-in-autism-mmr-case.html

He wasn't 'exonerated'. The court ruled that the GMC didn't have sufficient grounds to remove him from their register. That doesn't validate the link between autism and MMR in any way, shape or form. And BTW, this was one of the researchers who issued a retraction of the original interpretation (which was the whole point of the paper).

Not to mention the fact that Wakefield was stricken from the GMC register. I don't know if he fought it or not, but he wasn't reinstated.

[Achas Veachas]

Good question

Yes all of them, including the 300 new ones in development, but only after age 120


If there is any that you feel should  be taken earlier , you are welcome to explain why

In order to increase their chances of reaching 120 in the first place?

[aygart]

Once i caught him misinformed or misleading, why should i ever trust a single word he says?

Meanwhile you have made 46 posts and each of them has been shown to be misinformed or misleading. What should we say about your simply saying that someone else is misinformed without backing it up? We know you will not trust anything he says since you will say that if believes in vaccines he cannot be trusted....

Meanwhile I will point out that you have ignored where you were debunked in these places.

LOL again a reading comprehension issue

These are uncommon:These are rare:Rare as you wrote meansHow much less? you tell me since you claim to have knowledge about the numbers

Guillain-Barre does not fit into either of those categories. This means that in the clinical trials it was not reported at all. Instead it is in this category:What does that mean? It means that in tracking numbers reported by doctors (can't trust those) there have been cases reported and were rare enough to not have even shown up in the trials. It happens to be that the connection does make sense since varicella infection is a known cause of GB. In that case, by preventing cases of varicella the vaccine is causing there to be fewer cases of GB

Is there a rise in vaccination rates recently to blame that on? I can't say that I did the research, in fact if you look through what I wrote in this thread it was entirely based upon references brought by you and your ilk which invariably have shown the value and low risks of vaccinating and how you have misinterpreted the data.

It may be better diagnosis it may be something else and it may even be vaccines but you have not shown the link. One thing is certain and that is that better diagnosis exists.over the time span between the two data points you are using was there a corresponding rise in vaccinations? To simply say there are more cases of asthma now than at some random point in time does not show a connection to anything until you have data to connect them.

How about this data point?
Somalia has a very low vaccination rate, almost invariably below 50%. They also have significantly lower childhood obesity rates than the US. It must be that vaccines cause childhood obesity.

Where in that article do you see that the vaccine causes whooping cough? It makes no such connection. I think I know the answer to that and the conclusion is ridiculous, but would want to be certain of your reasoning before discussing it.

[aygart]

TO aygar

unless you stop fabricating  I will just ignore you

Every single point you have made until now has been shown from the source itself to have nothing to do with what he claimed it to be saying and you have not explained why I am wrong about any of them. You have simply ignored any argument anyone made against your numbers. Now you are "threatening" to ignore me. What have you been doing to any mention of facts until now? So you will continue ignoring the facts?   

• Note how the way his point from the UNESCO numbers was debunked was ignored
• Note how the way the connection to GB was debunked is ignored
• Note how the way the connection to infant deaths was debunked is ignored
• Note how he claims I fabricated things but has not yet shown even one thing which I fabricated while I have already shown a few and will show another in the next post.

I do not need your responses and do not expect you to end up feeling that vaccines are great. My point is that no one should be fooled by your nonsense. Ignore me if you wish.

[ChaimMoskowitz]

Good question

Yes all of them, including the 300 new ones in development, but only after age 120

https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=300%20vaccines%20in%20development

If there is any that you feel should  be taken earlier , you are welcome to explain why

I am following this thread and just asking questions to learn. One thing I am good at is spotting nutcases. Your answer provided the final piece of information I needed.

[aygart]

http://www.fda.gov/newsevents/newsroom/pressannouncements/ucm376937.htm

FDA study helps provide an understanding of rising rates of whooping cough and response to vaccination


 This research suggests that although individuals immunized with an acellular pertussis vaccine may be protected from disease, they may still become infected with the bacteria without always getting sick and are able to spread infection to others, including young infants who are susceptible to pertussis disease

This is a direct quote from the article with the emphasis yours. Since you seem to think that this means that the vaccine caused the infection which they then transmitted to others. This is simply untrue and another case of your lack of reading comprehension. We are dealing with acellular vaccine which means that there is no WC bacteria in the vaccine for it to infect someone with. The infection they are referring to is one to which the animals were exposed after the vaccine. The point of the study is that even though the vaccine WAS VERY EFFECTIVE in preventing the disease even when the animals were directly exposed to infection it was not effective to the extent that the bacteria was eradicated but instead the bacteria still colonized and was then able to infect unvaccinated animal which became diseased. On the other hand the whole-cell vaccines which contain dead but whole bacteria were effective to the extent that the vaccinated animals eradicated the bacteria altogether and could not infect unvaccinated animals. Here is a quote from the original study which they based the article on.

Vaccination, Infection, and Evaluation of Baboons. Baboons obtained from the Oklahoma Baboon Research Resource at the University of Oklahoma Health Sciences Center were inoculated with human doses of aP or wP administered intramuscularly at 2, 4, and 6 mo of age. For studies using aP, equal numbers of animals were vaccinated with Daptacel (Sanofi Pasteur Ltd.) and Infanrix (GlaxoSmithKline). For wP, animals were vaccinated with Triple Antigen (Serum Institute of India Ltd.), which meets the World Health Organization (WHO) recommendations for potency. Naïve animals were age-matched but not vaccinated. Previously infected animals were clear of B. pertussis infection for 1 to 2 mo before reinfection. Direct challenge and transmission studies were performed as described previously (17, 18). The inoculum for each direct challenge was between 109–1010 cfu as determined by measurement of optical density and confirmed by serial dilution and plating to determine the number of cfu per mL of inoculum. Baboons were evaluated twice weekly as described previously for enumeration of circulating white blood cells and serum separation (17). Nasopharyngeal washes were diluted and plated on Regan–Lowe plates to quantify bacterial cell counts.

Of course unvaccinated animals would become both colonized and diseased. So this would mean when you write that the vaccine caused WC it means that it wasn't 100% effective in preventing it, while no vaccine at all which allowed infection and disease did not cause WC

[jackofall]

nut-cases

You're way to kind.
On the other hand, as has been mentioned up thread, the anti vaxxer is a cult like mindset where it's us against the world. In that state of mind no logic, proof etc can change the mind. So it's hard to put blame on these poor souls. All we can do is pray for them.

[elit]

I am following this thread and just asking questions to learn. One thing I am good at is spotting nutcases. Your answer provided the final piece of information I needed.

You're good at spotting nut cases and it took until now?

[aygart]

Western medicine has its  benefits emergencies,  cuts, broken bones cardiac arrest

In chronic disease they have very limited value

You need to read up on your history. Cuts and broken bones are where medicine has advanced the least. In the times of the gemoro they already set and splinted broken bones. The primary advances of modern medicine have been in infectious and chronic diseases

[ChaimMoskowitz]

You're good at spotting nut cases and it took until now?

I believe in giving someone enough rope and ...

[@Yehuda]

Is this thread for the flu vaccine or vaccinations for children?

[Menachem613]

@baryochai Was 9/11 an inside job?

[ChaimMoskowitz]

The poll shows, majority did not buy the flu vax hype

Last time I got the shot was Oct 18, 1987. The very next day the stock market crashed. Never again for me. I LEARNED MY LESSON. I just don't understand why some can't accept the facts when they are starring them right in the face.

[jj1000]

@baryochai Was 9/11 an inside job?

I can't say for sure, but Big Pharm made a lot of money off of all those sick people after.

Probably more people got asthma than vaccines have made in the past decade, so it would make sense.

[ChaimMoskowitz]

Market crashed because you only got 1 shot , take 2 it will go up

You just don't get it do you? It would have went down twice as much. 

Your a JJ wannabe. It has nothing to do with DDF so figure that one out. 

[jj1000]

You just don't get it do you? It would have went down twice as much. 

Your a JJ wannabe. It has nothing to do with DDF so figure that one out. 

Fill me in?

[aygart]

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/11/books/review-bad-faith-a-dr-paul-a-offit-book-on-religion-and-modern-medicine.html?_r=0

Unfortunately, Dr. Offit’s book is more a fervent attack job than an earnest attempt to understand people with different, if misguided views. His book is thinly sourced and poorly researched, seeming at times as if he began with a conclusion and then went in search of evidence.

While your views are purely based upon your conclusions from the evidence?

Meanwhile every single reason not to vaccinate that you have posted has been debunked simply by reading what you were quoting from without needing to even look further. You have not yet explained even one of these and just called me a liar. Meanwhile I have made no claims other that showing that everything you are bringing is inaccurate and mizuyaf mitocho (an obvious forgery-sort of).

Every single point you have made until now has been shown from the source itself to have nothing to do with what he claimed it to be saying and you have not explained why I am wrong about any of them. You have simply ignored any argument anyone made against your numbers. Now you are "threatening" to ignore me. What have you been doing to any mention of facts until now? So you will continue ignoring the facts?   

• Note how the way his point from the UNESCO numbers was debunked was ignored
• Note how the way the connection to GB was debunked is ignored
• Note how the way the connection to infant deaths was debunked is ignored
• Note how he claims I fabricated things but has not yet shown even one thing which I fabricated while I have already shown a few and will show another in the next post.

I do not need your responses and do not expect you to end up feeling that vaccines are great. My point is that no one should be fooled by your nonsense. Ignore me if you wish.