Topic Wiki

The wiki is divided into groups for "fact" and "opinion." Please feel free to add whichever facts you know and opinions you have. Please try to avoid cluttering the wiki with unnecessary information such as outside links.

Please do not delete anything from this wiki.  If you disagree with an opinion, feel free to post your own. If you disagree with a fact--well, that's your opinion, and feel free to post it under opinions!

Facts
The flu vaccine causes more deaths per year than chicken pox.
The direct injection of RSV immunoglobulin, commonly known as the "RSV vaccine" would prevent 16x more deaths than the flu vaccine does, but is too expensive.
There is a vaccine for the plague, and that is why it is no longer an epidemic.
Ebola is caused by vaccines.
There is a vaccine for autism, but it causes mumps.


Opinions
Vaccines do not contain thimerosal, a known toxin.
If you snuck up on your neighbor's kid and cut open his skull, you would be arrested.  But when brain surgeons do it, and charge hundreds of thousands of dollars, it considered "medicine."
99% of vaccines do not cause autism (HT JJ1000).
Every pedi has seen healthy kids become sick physically & mentally hours after a vax (HT Baryochai)
Vaccines cause cancer, infertility, astma, adhd etc (HT Baryochai)

Poll

Did You Get The Flu Vaccine This Winter?

Yes (Shot)
121 (37.6%)
Yes (Nasal Spray)
5 (1.6%)
No
196 (60.9%)

Total Members Voted: 320

Author Topic: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread  (Read 544585 times)

Offline thaber

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #2160 on: November 11, 2018, 02:23:58 AM »
Nope. Whoever he may be do people think this video is informative or has a purpose? I'm asking sincerely.   Trying to figure out what he was trying to accomplish exactly and who he's gearing this video towards.
+1 the video gave absolutely no information about anything important.
I didn't watch the video, but he has a very prominent voice in Lakewood. I don't believe he is a practicing doctor

Offline mmgfarb

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #2161 on: November 11, 2018, 02:25:13 AM »
I didn't watch the video, but he has a very prominent voice in Lakewood. I don't believe he is a practicing doctor
He's not, seems like he hasn't practiced medicine in around 30 years.
"JS [is] a fetid cesspool of unvarnished linguistic manure, with lots of useless drivel and post-padding." -Moishebatchy

Offline thaber

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #2162 on: November 11, 2018, 02:26:44 AM »
He's not, seems like he hasn't practiced medicine in around 30 years.
So he's not speaking as a doctor, more as an askan with medical knowledge.

Offline mmgfarb

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #2163 on: November 11, 2018, 02:27:34 AM »
So he's not speaking as a doctor, more as an askan with medical knowledge.
Idc what he's speaking as, he doesn't say anything.
"JS [is] a fetid cesspool of unvarnished linguistic manure, with lots of useless drivel and post-padding." -Moishebatchy

Offline davidrotts63

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #2164 on: November 11, 2018, 02:27:35 AM »
He's not, seems like he hasn't practiced medicine in around 30 years.
I don't believe he ever did, he was involved in the pharmaceutical industry.
(Quit) pulling out the flowers, and watering the weeds. -Peter Lynch

Offline mmgfarb

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #2165 on: November 11, 2018, 02:28:04 AM »
I don't believe he ever did, he was involved in the pharmaceutical industry.
He said he was an internist IINM.
"JS [is] a fetid cesspool of unvarnished linguistic manure, with lots of useless drivel and post-padding." -Moishebatchy

Offline cmey

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #2166 on: November 11, 2018, 02:56:20 AM »
It would seem that he got the OC Health Department to do a 180. Earlier in the week OCHD had issued guidance, apparently after pressure from a lawyer hired by the anti-vaxers, that schools were not to send home unvaccinated students. Im not certain but it sounds like lawyers letters actually went out to schools threatening legal consequences for barring those students. N.J.A.C. clearly gives schools the authority to make all such decisions as they see fit. On Friday, as Roberts engaged the law firm, OCHD completely reversed its position that it had taken a few days prior and strongly encouraged the exclusion of unvaccinated children from schools.

Roberts has deep pockets (he self funded the chol hamoed carnival serving 10k kids each Yom Tov) and strong convictions so if he is committing to go after anyone promoting anti vaccination legally it is likely not an idle threat and may be a game changer...

Offline Definitions

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #2167 on: November 11, 2018, 03:32:25 AM »
Nope. Whoever he may be do people think this video is informative or has a purpose? I'm asking sincerely.   Trying to figure out what he was trying to accomplish exactly and who he's gearing this video towards.
Well I thought it's about the recent story of people hiring lawyers to prevent their kids from being kicked out of school. At 7:42 he does mention that people got lawyers for that. Although I'm not sure which story he's referring to.

Besides for that he was explaining that he didn't like the people that are looking to profit through this by selling nutriceuticals (or whatever he called them). And wants to stop them.

The purpose wasn't to discuss the benefits/risks of vaccines. He already did that before if I'm not mistaken.
My Tapatalk notifications don't always work.

Offline grodnoking

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #2168 on: November 11, 2018, 06:12:33 AM »
It would seem that he got the OC Health Department to do a 180. Earlier in the week OCHD had issued guidance, apparently after pressure from a lawyer hired by the anti-vaxers, that schools were not to send home unvaccinated students. Im not certain but it sounds like lawyers letters actually went out to schools threatening legal consequences for barring those students. N.J.A.C. clearly gives schools the authority to make all such decisions as they see fit. On Friday, as Roberts engaged the law firm, OCHD completely reversed its position that it had taken a few days prior and strongly encouraged the exclusion of unvaccinated children from schools.

Roberts has deep pockets (he self funded the chol hamoed carnival serving 10k kids each Yom Tov) and strong convictions so if he is committing to go after anyone promoting anti vaccination legally it is likely not an idle threat and may be a game changer...
I know it's not the same situation, but the irony is to much for me not to mention it.

The first person to effectively stand up against the problem of kids not getting into school is now trying to get kids banned from school!
I'm not who you think I am.

Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #2169 on: November 11, 2018, 06:39:34 AM »
Nope. Whoever he may be do people think this video is informative or has a purpose? I'm asking sincerely.   Trying to figure out what he was trying to accomplish exactly and who he's gearing this video towards.
He's trying to save lives.
Your drivel about "not enough research" is actually dangerous. You are one degree away from being an antivaxxer and bringing back more death and destruction.

Offline sky121

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #2170 on: November 11, 2018, 07:26:49 AM »
He's trying to save lives.
Your drivel about "not enough research" is actually dangerous. You are one degree away from being an antivaxxer and bringing back more death and destruction.
Apparently there was a previous video so I don't know what was said. But this specific video doesn't exactly do much to try to promote getting the vaccine. He doesn't speak of the vaccine at all much. The first thing he starts speaking of is the health advisors who are anti vaccine and how the government is going to get them eventually. Was this video targeted at them?   




Also I have a yes or no question for you- must anyone who has any concerns about the vaccine and wishes for more transparency be labeled an "anti vaxxer"?




In my mind the "anti vaxxers" are the straight out against vaccines group, the people who claim you're nuts for giving your child the vaccine and aren't open to hearing anything that might be an argument for vaccines.

And then there are those all the way to the other side who can't imagine why someone would not believe vaccines are 100% safe. Who just put anyone with any concerns into the 'quack' category and like "anti vaxxers" aren't open to any discussion and don't want to hear any more information.



Why, in America, is it so hard crazy to have concerns about a medicine or vaccine even if it's prescribed by a doctor?



"Not all who wander are lost"

Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #2171 on: November 11, 2018, 07:31:18 AM »
Apparently there was a previous video so I don't know what was said. But this specific video doesn't exactly do much to try to promote getting the vaccine. He doesn't speak of the vaccine at all much. The first thing he starts speaking of is the health advisors who are anti vaccine and how the government is going to get them eventually. Was this video targeted at them?   




Also I have a yes or no question for you- must anyone who has any concerns about the vaccine and wishes for more transparency be labeled an "anti vaxxer"?




In my mind the "anti vaxxers" are the straight out against vaccines group, the people who claim you're nuts for giving your child the vaccine and aren't open to hearing anything that might be an argument for vaccines.

And then there are those all the way to the other side who can't imagine why someone would not believe vaccines are 100% safe. Who just put anyone with any concerns into the 'quack' category and like "anti vaxxers" aren't open to any discussion and don't want to hear any more information.



Why, in America, is it so hard crazy to have concerns about a medicine or vaccine even if it's prescribed by a doctor?
This is not just "medicine prescribed by a doctor".
Its overwhelmingly different, it is "medicine  taken by billions" studied  by the entire body of medern science and is definitely lifesaving etc.
To even discuss this with a well educated person like you is ridiculous. You have been influenced by someone or something terrible.

Offline sky121

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #2172 on: November 11, 2018, 07:32:42 AM »
I'm a bit confused.  Are there any folks here who are anti vaccines  any who have not vaccinated their kids here ?

Why, if your kid wasn't vaccinated, would you even want to send them school if other kids were diagnosed with the disease? Wouldn't you want to keep them home for a bit anyways?

Or are these parents wanting their kids to get measles like back in the day when folks took their kids to the house with chicken pox in hope to catch it?


"Not all who wander are lost"

Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #2173 on: November 11, 2018, 07:50:37 AM »
I'm a bit confused.  Are there any folks here who are anti vaccines  any who have not vaccinated their kids here ?

Why, if your kid wasn't vaccinated, would you even want to send them school if other kids were diagnosed with the disease? Wouldn't you want to keep them home for a bit anyways?

Or are these parents wanting their kids to get measles like back in the day when folks took their kids to the house with chicken pox in hope to catch it?
Maybe the don't believe in the risks of encephalitis? What do Drs know..

Offline sky121

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #2174 on: November 11, 2018, 08:05:25 AM »
This is not just "medicine prescribed by a doctor".
Its overwhelmingly different, it is "medicine  taken by billions" studied  by the entire body of medern science and is definitely lifesaving etc.
To even discuss this with a well educated person like you is ridiculous. You have been influenced by someone or something terrible.
[/quote
]You're basically saying the discussion isn't up for debate. No conversation allowed.  So I guess you're not the one anyone should be discussing this with. Thought honestly you've made that clear on other topics as well in other forums.

That attitude will never get you far with trying to promote vaccines or anything else for that matter.

There are people on both ends of this conversation just like you who don't want to hear anything "the other side" has to say or have any sort of conversation.

I'm not really interested in attempting to talk to those people for the mere fact that you cannot in fact talk to those people.

Meanwhile at this point the people you 'hear' loudest in the media are those on each side  bashing the other side and not really listening. Which is unfortunate because it leads to no real opportunity for discussion or potential change.
"Not all who wander are lost"

Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #2175 on: November 11, 2018, 08:26:20 AM »
This is not just "medicine prescribed by a doctor".
Its overwhelmingly different, it is "medicine  taken by billions" studied  by the entire body of medern science and is definitely lifesaving etc.
To even discuss this with a well educated person like you is ridiculous. You have been influenced by someone or something terrible.
[/quote
]You're basically saying the discussion isn't up for debate. No conversation allowed.  So I guess you're not the one anyone should be discussing this with. Thought honestly you've made that clear on other topics as well in other forums.

That attitude will never get you far with trying to promote vaccines or anything else for that matter.

There are people on both ends of this conversation just like you who don't want to hear anything "the other side" has to say or have any sort of conversation.

I'm not really interested in attempting to talk to those people for the mere fact that you cannot in fact talk to those people.

Meanwhile at this point the people you 'hear' loudest in the media are those on each side  bashing the other side and not really listening. Which is unfortunate because it leads to no real opportunity for discussion or potential change.
Yes that is exactly what I'm saying. There is no debate over her and you should know it.
There are no two sides.

People like you will only see this once Rabbi Dr Tatz's predictions come true:

a) the horrors of the eradicated diseases come back and CV kill many children in the community
b) you will see more and more retarded unvaxxed children

Then the pendulum will swing. Untill then we are at the mercy of crazies.

https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/headlines/id1048703487?mt=2&i=1000423551175

Offline zh cohen

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #2176 on: November 11, 2018, 09:14:55 AM »

https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/headlines/id1048703487?mt=2&i=1000423551175

I really enjoyed this discussion. I wish Lichtenstein would have asked the parent (who sounded like a parody of an anti-vaxer conspiracy theorist) how he evaluates which evidence is good, and which is bought and paid for.

Offline sky121

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #2177 on: November 11, 2018, 09:23:46 AM »
Yes that is exactly what I'm saying. There is no debate over her and you should know it.
There are no two sides.

People like you will only see this once Rabbi Dr Tatz's predictions come true:

a) the horrors of the eradicated diseases come back and CV kill many children in the community
b) you will see more and more retarded unvaxxed children

Then the pendulum will swing. Untill then we are at the mercy of crazies.

https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/headlines/id1048703487?mt=2&i=1000423551175
I've actually listened to this already. I'm a big fan of Rabbi Tatz.


I'm not asking for a debate. Nor am I getting into the discussion of whether one should vaccinate or not or if it's permissible not to or not. (I myself believe parents should vaccinate their kids).


Anyone who tells you vaccines don't do anything is just lying to themselves. That's not my question nor is it many others that have concerns.
 You're answering my questions as someone who is all the way to one side as if I am all the way to the other and I am very much not. 
And like I said. Neither of those people can have any discussion anyways.



Honestly, the time to bring up concerns about vaccines isn't during an outbreak.  And like I said before there are too many angry people on both sides to have any sort of productive conversation.


It's unfortunate.












"Not all who wander are lost"

Online Yehuda57

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #2178 on: November 11, 2018, 09:25:06 AM »


I'm a bit confused.  Are there any folks here who are anti vaccines  any who have not vaccinated their kids here ?

Why, if your kid wasn't vaccinated, would you even want to send them school if other kids were diagnosed with the disease? Wouldn't you want to keep them home for a bit anyways?

Or are these parents wanting their kids to get measles like back in the day when folks took their kids to the house with chicken pox in hope to catch it?

Yes, there are people here who don't vaccinate. Yes, there are people who purposefully expose their children to measles. A couple years back there was a "lollipop exchange" going on on Jewish mommy Facebook groups.


Offline sky121

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #2179 on: November 11, 2018, 09:27:26 AM »

Yes, there are people here who don't vaccinate. Yes, there are people who purposefully expose their children to measles. A couple years back there was a "lollipop exchange" going on on Jewish mommy Facebook groups.
Got it. And I understand the concept.

 But I just have a hard time believing that *all* those parents are sending their kids to school still because they davka want their kid to get measles.     

But maybe I'm wrong. Who knows.
"Not all who wander are lost"