Vaccine Discussion Master Thread

[shmielyosef]

http://www.rationalistjudaism.com/2018/11/vaccines-and-big-pharma-insiders.html?m=1

[Moshe123]

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[shmielyosef]

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What does that mean in plain english?

[yitzgar]

What does that mean in plain english?

Everyone should be vaccinated

[aygart]

What does that mean in plain english?

Gather the children together and they should leave vaccinated.

[churnbabychurn]

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What on Earth was Rabbi winds question?



Btw I know of someone who just got meningitis from measles. This is just getting crazy.

[yesitsme]

What on Earth was Rabbi winds question?



Btw I know of someone who just got meningitis from measles. This is just getting crazy.

How to deal with anti vaxxers,

[shmielyosef]

Gather the children together and they should leave vaccinated.

Thanks! I could not figure out how to read it. Tried a few times

[az]

https://www.dailywire.com/news/38676/watch-researcher-says-first-gene-edited-babies-james-barrett

[thaber]

https://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/general/1631188/rav-moshe-sternbuch-writes-letter-to-rav-malkiel-kotler-about-the-halachic-requirement-to-vaccinate.html

[churnbabychurn]

https://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/general/1631188/rav-moshe-sternbuch-writes-letter-to-rav-malkiel-kotler-about-the-halachic-requirement-to-vaccinate.html

I'd love to see in writing Rav Malkiels halachic reasoning.

[zh cohen]

I'd love to see in writing Rav Malkiels halachic reasoning.

He signed this letter

There is a letter going around signed by him and (along with several others) that says that "an individual who has done his research has the obligation to act according to his knowledge. If his research has led him to believe that the risks of vaccines are greater than its benefits, and particularly when his view is supported by many medical doctors and researchers, the commandment of ונשמרתם מאוד לנפשותיכם obligates him to shield his children from vaccines"

[churnbabychurn]

He signed this letter

Not much on there as far as sources and background.
Just some assertions that are very very much debatable.

[skyguy918]

I'd love to see in writing Rav Malkiels halachic reasoning.

Seems pretty clear that the "machlokes" is not so much in halacha as it is in perception of the facts.

[churnbabychurn]

Seems pretty clear that the "machlokes" is not so much in halacha as it is in perception of the facts.

Facts are not perceptions

[chaimmayer]

Correct me if I am wrong but it seems to me that the rabbanim are not really dealing with the anti vaxxers claims.  The anti vaxxers are saying that they don't want to give vaccines because of the risk of autism or much worse.
All of the halachic discussions are not really dealing with this טענה.  Either they tell them that it's just not true and there is absolutely no risk or they discuss the need to protect others.  However when they do that the way it sounds is more like don't be lazy go get vaccinated.  They don't really deal with the question of how much do I have to put myself in sakanah in order to protect others.

The anti vaxxers I know are upset that  the rabbanim and doctors are saying their מציאות is wrong and that there is no risk when in fact the CDC itself admits to there being a risk.  As to how much you are required to put yourself in sakkana I just don't hear that being addressed.

A notable exception is Rav Moshe Meir Weiss on the headlines podcast said clearly that yes there is a risk but the pros outweigh the cons.

[thaber]

https://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/general/1631914/measles-update-bais-yaakov-of-passaic-to-be-closed-wednesday-as-per-health-dept.html
Add Passaic to the list

[thaber]

Correct me if I am wrong but it seems to me that the rabbanim are not really dealing with the anti vaxxers claims.  The anti vaxxers are saying that they don't want to give vaccines because of the risk of autism or much worse.
All of the halachic discussions are not really dealing with this טענה.  Either they tell them that it's just not true and there is absolutely no risk or they discuss the need to protect others.  However when they do that the way it sounds is more like don't be lazy go get vaccinated.  They don't really deal with the question of how much do I have to put myself in sakanah in order to protect others.

The anti vaxxers I know are upset that  the rabbanim and doctors are saying their מציאות is wrong and that there is no risk when in fact the CDC itself admits to there being a risk.  As to how much you are required to put yourself in sakkana I just don't hear that being addressed.

A notable exception is Rav Moshe Meir Weiss on the headlines podcast said clearly that yes there is a risk but the pros outweigh the cons.

Where does the CDC admit to an 'autism or much worse' risk?
Rabbonim do address it, from the tiferes Yisroel down. But it's not the focus of the conversation because the anti vaxxers aren't even open to that. They aren't maskim to anyone getting it at all, they think all vaccines are a bad thing for everyone

[chaimmayer]

You're right they don't mention autism but do mention other things.  https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vac-gen/side-effects.htm#mmr

Yes you are right that many anti vaxxers argue how effective any vaccine really is but to me it seems like this is the main shaila.  Am I a mazik/rodef etc. If my motivation is to protect myself?
Rav Shternbuch wrote this whole long teshuva analyzing the different levels of sakana but it doesn't address this question.

[Yehuda57]

You're right they don't mention autism but do mention other things.  https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vac-gen/side-effects.htm#mmr

Yes you are right that many anti vaxxers argue how effective any vaccine really is but to me it seems like this is the main shaila.  Am I a mazik/rodef etc. If my motivation is to protect myself?
Rav Shternbuch wrote this whole long teshuva analyzing the different levels of sakana but it doesn't address this question.

Everything we do in life carries inherent risk. From crossing the road to driving cars or even eating salad.

Literally no one says vaccines have no risks at all.