Vaccine Discussion Master Thread

[zh cohen]

Second, I have seen firsthand multiple times people ask R’ Shmuel if they should vax and he said something to the tune of “Chas Vesholom”.

Wow! Has anyone ever asked him why?

[thaber]

. Second, I have seen firsthand multiple times people ask R’ Shmuel if they should vax and he said something to the tune of “Chas Vesholom”.

Next time you're at one of these sightings, please ask him why, and if he'd be willing to sign a public proclamation to that effect. and if he says no ask him why not.

[churnbabychurn]

A of big talmid of Rav shmuels baby dieda few years ago from preventable menigites. Needless to say he is now pro vax.

[shmielyosef]

You can slow down the schedule, etc. But it should be done with medical advice, and by all means, find a doctor who understands your perspective.

There aren't any respectful doctors that would agree to that. The idea comes from anti-vaxxers, one of the main geniuses behind the idea is a "doctor" named Bob Sears, who agreed that scientifically he doesn't have any reasoning or proof that its any better, but his job is to make parents comfortable... He also still believes that vaccines cause autism despite the fact that it has been disproven so many times over and over... His words are, "vaccines don't cause autism, besides for when they do"... Utter brilliance.
Finding a doctor who understands your perspective is like telling someone to find a rov who paskens like u wish...

[YitzyS]

I vax and I think antivaxxers ares mostly nuts.

But from a Daas Torah perspective, R’ Shmuel kamenetsky and R‘ Malkiel  Kotler, two of the leading gedolei poskim verabbanim in America, are both vehemently antivax. And the central Agudah/Moetzes has never put out anything pro vaccination publicly. Just saying.

If a person asks their shaalos to one of the aforementioned two, then we have something to talk about. But a person has no right to cherrypick a rov if that rov is essentially a daas yochid.

[shmielyosef]

I vax and I think antivaxxers ares mostly nuts.

But from a Daas Torah perspective, R’ Shmuel kamenetsky and R‘ Malkiel  Kotler, two of the leading gedolei poskim verabbanim in America, are both vehemently antivax. And the central Agudah/Moetzes has never put out anything pro vaccination publicly. Just saying.

About the Agudah, come on, this is a contemporary issue, they would have spoken up of they didn’t have something/one holding them back.

About R’ Shmuel and R’ Malkiel, first of all saying to respect others’ opinions and allow unvaccinated children to be in school and in contact with other kids puts them in danger, which is completely not right, unless you believe it’s shtusim. Second, I have seen firsthand multiple times people ask R’ Shmuel if they should vax and he said something to the tune of “Chas Vesholom”.

It is true. I know of someone that spoke to reb shmuel and told him he doesn't vaccinate "ברוכים תהיו".
However, Reb Shmuel is heavily influenced by his wife that believes that vaccines are a deliberate attempt by germany to sterilize the population.
Recently a few doctors set up a meeting with him at a wedding to discuss Vaccinations. As soon as the doctors started arguing back with what he was saying, his daughters shlepped him away, while screaming at the doctors that "it's not kavod hatorah.". So i have a hard time believing that he did his own independent research and paskened based on that.
When asked about the kid in israel that died from the measles he said it was fake news and the kid really died from something else...

[Yehuda57]

There aren't any respectful doctors that would agree to that. The idea comes from anti-vaxxers, one of the main geniuses behind the idea is a "doctor" named Bob Sears, who agreed that scientifically he doesn't have any reasoning or proof that its any better, but his job is to make parents comfortable... He also still believes that vaccines cause autism despite the fact that it has been disproven so many times over and over... His words are, "vaccines don't cause autism, besides for when they do"... Utter brilliance.
Finding a doctor who understands your perspective is like telling someone to find a rov who paskens like u wish...

If it means that more parents will vaccinate, which doctor would not agree?

[shmielyosef]

If it means that more parents will vaccinate, which doctor would not agree?

I don't know about that. But young babies are definitely more vulnerable to catching diseases, and pushing off any vaccine is leaving them susceptible to disease. Why can't people hear that as part of the general reason to vaccinate and not try to approach medical decisions with hergesh? As @thaber himself said regarding cancer

[shmielyosef]

I meant to point out that the idea comes from anti-vaxxers, which some of their luminaries have been asked if they would feel responsible if someone based on their rhetoric wouldn't vaccinate, and their child would die from a vaccine preventable disease, they said they wouldn't... They just keep bashing the CDC FDA NIH etc without actually doing anything positive. The argument "too many, too soon" is just another one of those

[thaber]

There aren't any respectful doctors that would agree to that. The idea comes from anti-vaxxers, one of the main geniuses behind the idea is a "doctor" named Bob Sears, who agreed that scientifically he doesn't have any reasoning or proof that its any better, but his job is to make parents comfortable... He also still believes that vaccines cause autism despite the fact that it has been disproven so many times over and over... His words are, "vaccines don't cause autism, besides for when they do"... Utter brilliance.
Finding a doctor who understands your perspective is like telling someone to find a rov who paskens like u wish...

Not true. Most pediatricians, when there's no active cases, are ok with delaying the second mmr a few months etc.

[shmielyosef]

Not true. Most pediatricians, when there's no active cases, are ok with delaying the second mmr a few months etc.

That's different then just spacing them out so u feel less guilty about ur child being poked too much

[shmielyosef]

Not true. Most pediatricians, when there's no active cases, are ok with delaying the second mmr a few months etc.

Also, is this a fact or assumption?
And why would you even want to do that? There's no reason to believe that it's any better that way

[thaber]

Also, is this a fact or assumption?

The most is an assumption, based on my experience with my kids pediatricians, including Dr shanik when I lived in Lakewood. It was a while ago and I'd expect he's more hard line now, but my wife suffered from the aforementioned guilt, and his office was ok with it

[churnbabychurn]

Not true. Most pediatricians, when there's no active cases, are ok with delaying the second mmr a few months etc.

Ok with not throwing out the patient who insists on it, doesn't mean they are "ok with it"

[shmielyosef]

The most is an assumption, based on my experience with my kids pediatricians, including Dr shanik when I lived in Lakewood. It was a while ago and I'd expect he's more hard line now, but my wife suffered from the aforementioned guilt, and his office was ok with it

People should realize that this reasoning comes from anti-vaxxers who just feel they can reach the general crowd better by not sounding so hardline

[shmielyosef]

People should realize that this reasoning comes from anti-vaxxers who just feel they can reach the general crowd better by not sounding so hardline

Or because their previous arguments were refuted so many times

[thaber]

Ok with not throwing out the patient who insists on it, doesn't mean they are "ok with it"

Granted

People should realize that this reasoning comes from anti-vaxxers who just feel they can reach the general crowd better by not sounding so hardline

Granted. But  if it helps them get vaccinated it doesn't bother me

[shmielyosef]

GrantedGranted. But  if it helps them get vaccinated it doesn't bother me

But by parroting those arguments people are opening the door to babies catching diseases they're susceptible to when they're at that age.

[Boruch999]

How does this

When asked about the kid in israel that died from the measles he said it was fake news and the kid really died from something else...

shtim with

A of big talmid of Rav shmuels baby dieda few years ago from preventable menigites. Needless to say he is now pro vax.

[shaulyaakov]

As long as "Gedolim" are literally endangering the public, people should boycott their shiurim, sefarim, and institutions (and most importantly, their donations).

There's not one shred of Halacha to support this position, and they are in a clear minority. It's not so different than Lev Tahor or any other radical group/